After a new dial indicator

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

It’s the same old story, John … The Chinese can, and do, make top quality stuff [broad term to cover many things], but “our” problem is that they are also willing and able to produce tat, at any price-point that suits the buyer.

I regret that there is no easy way for end-users to be sure of what they are buying.

MichaelG.

.

Note: no national or racial slur intended ^^^

I just can’t find a way to avoid the generalisation implicit in referring to ‘the Chinese’

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by petro1head on 13/03/2023 11:10:51:

Another question, is Jeweled important

.

Done properly, jeweling will improve both performance and longevity

Done badly, it’s just a word.

How will you know?

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/03/2023 11:17:24

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

You can overthink this. You don't need an inspection grade instrument for everyday use in the workshop. That Starret looks a good price and it's a well regarded make. If you can't fix your current item just go for that? Also worth looking out for surplus ones at shows, car boots etc.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by John Haine on 13/03/2023 11:29:13:

You can overthink this. You don't need an inspection grade instrument for everyday use in the workshop. That Starret looks a good price and it's a well regarded make. If you can't fix your current item just go for that? Also worth looking out for surplus ones at shows, car boots etc.

You know what John, your so right.

I will have a go with the Starrrett one. Beauty of Amazon if its no good dead easy to return.

Cheers guys for your help and sorry for being a fanny

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by petro1head on 13/03/2023 11:35:28:

[…]

I will have a go with the Starrrett one.

.

Most importantly … Please share your opinion of it here

It will help the next guy

MichaelG.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by petro1head on 13/03/2023 11:35:28:

Posted by John Haine on 13/03/2023 11:29:13:

You can overthink this. You don't need an inspection grade instrument for everyday use in the workshop. That Starret looks a good price and it's a well regarded make. If you can't fix your current item just go for that? Also worth looking out for surplus ones at shows, car boots etc.

You know what John, your so right.

I will have a go with the Starrrett one. Beauty of Amazon if its no good dead easy to return.

Cheers guys for your help and sorry for being a fanny

I think if it has the Starrett name on it and you are buying it from the Amazon Starrett shop (so you know it's not a knock-off), there is very little chance it will be no good. It may not be inspection grade made to be used all day every day for the next 20 years at high levels of accuracy, but it is pretty sure to fill the need in the home workshop.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/03/2023 11:42:41:

Most importantly … Please share your opinion of it here

It will help the next guy

MichaelG.

I get it end of today so will report back tomorrow

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by Hopper on 13/03/2023 11:43:29:

Posted by petro1head on 13/03/2023 11:35:28:

Posted by John Haine on 13/03/2023 11:29:13:

You can overthink this. You don't need an inspection grade instrument for everyday use in the workshop. That Starret looks a good price and it's a well regarded make. If you can't fix your current item just go for that? Also worth looking out for surplus ones at shows, car boots etc.

You know what John, your so right.

I will have a go with the Starrrett one. Beauty of Amazon if its no good dead easy to return.

Cheers guys for your help and sorry for being a fanny

I think if it has the Starrett name on it and you are buying it from the Amazon Starrett shop (so you know it's not a knock-off), there is very little chance it will be no good. It may not be inspection grade made to be used all day every day for the next 20 years at high levels of accuracy, but it is pretty sure to fill the need in the home workshop.

Not sure its the Starrett shop but its supplied and sold by Amazon

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

A friend buys cheapy power tools for his business use as the are likely to be stolen before they are out of guarantee. If you buy a top of the range tool you may drop or damage it and have a very expensive repair job. A budget model could be replaced without shedding too many tears. A budget gauge may well be entirely satisfactory as Hopper has found. A high end gauge will give long service but eventually it will probably need some maintenance which is quite a specialist task and not likely to be cheap. I would be inclined to not buy the cheapest I can find but buy a wallet friendly item from a supplier who cares about what they sell.

Mike

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Well it arived damaged, the pluger was tight as well as the bezel

Back to the drawing board

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by petro1head on 13/03/2023 21:43:12:

Well it arived damaged, the pluger was tight as well as the bezel

Back to the drawing board

.

Sorry to hear that … but thanks for the prompt ‘review’

MichaelG.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by petro1head on 13/03/2023 12:09:55:

Posted by Hopper on 13/03/2023 11:43:29:

Posted by petro1head on 13/03/2023 11:35:28:

Posted by John Haine on 13/03/2023 11:29:13:

You can overthink this. You don't need an inspection grade instrument for everyday use in the workshop. That Starret looks a good price and it's a well regarded make. If you can't fix your current item just go for that? Also worth looking out for surplus ones at shows, car boots etc.

You know what John, your so right.

I will have a go with the Starrrett one. Beauty of Amazon if its no good dead easy to return.

Cheers guys for your help and sorry for being a fanny

I think if it has the Starrett name on it and you are buying it from the Amazon Starrett shop (so you know it's not a knock-off), there is very little chance it will be no good. It may not be inspection grade made to be used all day every day for the next 20 years at high levels of accuracy, but it is pretty sure to fill the need in the home workshop.

Not sure its the Starrett shop but its supplied and sold by Amazon

The link you posted appears to be the Starrett Store on Amazon. Presumably run by Starrett, or their UK agent on the Amazon platform?

Disappointing and not a good sign that it arrived damaged. Is this another great brand name peddling junk at the low end of their price range? Terribly disappointing if so.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/03/2023 11:13:55:

It’s the same old story, John … The Chinese can, and do, make top quality stuff [broad term to cover many things], but “our” problem is that they are also willing and able to produce tat, at any price-point that suits the buyer.

I regret that there is no easy way for end-users to be sure of what they are buying.

MichaelG.

.

Note: no national or racial slur intended ^^^

I just can’t find a way to avoid the generalisation implicit in referring to ‘the Chinese’

I think you are on safe ground. No more racist than talking about old British motorbikes tend to leak oil more than Japanese ones. Just a fact of life. Country of origin is a bona fide factor in the equation and a legitimate topic for discussion. No reflection on the individuals or general populace of those countries, just on the manufactured products thereof.

Edited By Hopper on 14/03/2023 02:32:53

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

I got from China a 25mm travel 0.001mm resolution plunger DTI, and a 0.01 resolution. From the top of its travel, the 1st 10mm is very good. But at 20mm, they have an error of around 0.03 to 0.04mm, and at 25mm, almost no compression on the spring, it is 0.05mm error on both of them. Rather disappointing really. My old Mitutoyo 25mm travel indicator over all the test distances that were used on the digital indicators, was within the thickness of the line of the markings. I thought that the digital stuff would have been a lot more consistent and quite accurate. But that is not the case with the 2 that I got.

Neil

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by petro1head on 13/03/2023 21:43:12:

Well it arived damaged, the pluger was tight as well as the bezel

Back to the drawing board

So the supplier will send you a replacement at no extra cost and if they want the duff one back they will have to pay for the return.

Tony

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Lickfold on 14/03/2023 08:42:33:

I got from China a 25mm travel 0.001mm resolution plunger DTI, and a 0.01 resolution. From the top of its travel, the 1st 10mm is very good. But at 20mm, they have an error of around 0.03 to 0.04mm, and at 25mm, almost no compression on the spring, it is 0.05mm error on both of them. Rather disappointing really. My old Mitutoyo 25mm travel indicator over all the test distances that were used on the digital indicators, was within the thickness of the line of the markings. I thought that the digital stuff would have been a lot more consistent and quite accurate. But that is not the case with the 2 that I got.

Neil

My take on these instruments is that they aren't accurate at all, least of all over their full operating range, and don't have to be. They're comparators rather than absolute measurement tools, and used to align work and tools, or rough check flatness etc. Tramming a mill, or aligning a machine vice, a DTI only has to indicate the size of the error well enough to halve it on each pass. It's not necessary to know what the error actually is accurately in mm.

A 0.001mm dial indicates high sensitivity, not that the instrument performs just as well as a micrometer! I've never used a DTI to measure anything. Am I wrong?

Dave

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

So I found some that do have a very high accuracy, and they are expensive too compared to the cheaper ones. The ones I got have an accuracy of +-0.03mm with a resolution of either 0.01mm or 0.001mm.

The ones I overlooked, come in different accuracy ratings, ranging form +-0.003mm to +-0.007mm over the range of the instrument. Some shorter distance ones are +-0.002mm .

So it is spend the money and get the more expensive model that comes with a certificate. I have a situation of needing to measure a distance and then a movement. I have been using a depth mic until now and want something digital that is easy to set and then read off the information. The higher end ones have a better IP rating , not that its an issue with what I am doing.

[Chuck TaperParticipant @chucktaper]

Came to this thread late.

Recently posted a (similar) query here about a Moore & Wright item I was thinking about purchasing.

DIAL INDICATOR 0 – 0.8mm – MW420-03

I did purchase.

All I can realistically report at this point is that I am satisfied with form and function.

Not yet used under battlefield conditions but seems fine in rehearsal.

Regards.

Frank C.

….and no its not exactly the same but…

Edited By Chuck Taper on 14/03/2023 09:59:36

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 14/03/2023 09:17:23:

Posted by petro1head on 13/03/2023 21:43:12:

Well it arived damaged, the pluger was tight as well as the bezel

Back to the drawing board

So the supplier will send you a replacement at no extra cost and if they want the duff one back they will have to pay for the return.

Tony

As its from Amazon its not a problem, i will getvavrefund and have a rethink

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 14/03/2023 09:19:57:

Posted by Neil Lickfold on 14/03/2023 08:42:33:

I got from China a 25mm travel 0.001mm resolution plunger DTI, and a 0.01 resolution. From the top of its travel, the 1st 10mm is very good. But at 20mm, they have an error of around 0.03 to 0.04mm, and at 25mm, almost no compression on the spring, it is 0.05mm error on both of them. Rather disappointing really. My old Mitutoyo 25mm travel indicator over all the test distances that were used on the digital indicators, was within the thickness of the line of the markings. I thought that the digital stuff would have been a lot more consistent and quite accurate. But that is not the case with the 2 that I got.

Neil

My take on these instruments is that they aren't accurate at all, least of all over their full operating range, and don't have to be. They're comparators rather than absolute measurement tools, and used to align work and tools, or rough check flatness etc. Tramming a mill, or aligning a machine vice, a DTI only has to indicate the size of the error well enough to halve it on each pass. It's not necessary to know what the error actually is accurately in mm.

A 0.001mm dial indicates high sensitivity, not that the instrument performs just as well as a micrometer! I've never used a DTI to measure anything. Am I wrong?

Dave

I would agree, well for me anyway

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by Chuck Taper on 14/03/2023 09:58:20:

Came to this thread late.

Recently posted a (similar) query here about a Moore & Wright item I was thinking about purchasing.

DIAL INDICATOR 0 – 0.8mm – MW420-03

I did purchase.

All I can realistically report at this point is that I am satisfied with form and function.

Not yet used under battlefield conditions but seems fine in rehearsal.

Regards.

Frank C.

….and no its not exactly the same but…

Edited By Chuck Taper on 14/03/2023 09:59:36

Cheers hiwever i am looking for a plunger type

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

This thread stirred my memory and made me rummage through my toolbox. As stated before I use a Mitutoyo DTI but I do have a cheap Chinese ? DTI and remember now buying it as a back up in case I ever need it. I seem to recall it was sub £20 and good to know I always have something to work with. On inspection it looks like a Mercer and appears to work well. My DTIs used in my working life all had carbide fingers to counteract magnetism rather than for wear resistance, not required for home use.

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Have a look here, H Roberts. Local to me but no association, give then a ring though to check wether in stock or delivery time.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

A 0.001mm dial indicates high sensitivity, not that the instrument performs just as well as a micrometer! I've never used a DTI to measure anything. Am I wrong?

I still have the Mitutoyo 0.001m resolution dial gauge that I used to use for demonstrating to customers that alignments were within spec. on rebuilt machine tools. For its intended use, it was regularly sent out to an independant test establishment & came back with a certificate that detailed the errors thoughout its working envelope (1 mm in this case) – it read within 0.001mm over the full travel with an uncertainty of measurement of +/- 0.001mm, so either dead on or 0.002mm error over 1mm. Having sat in a cabinet in my garage for around 20 years, it is out of calibaration at the moment.

The readings taken with this gauge were used to measure the machine alignments when compared to precision artifacts i.e. large lumps of calibrated granite. So there are instances where a direct measurement is useful. Obviously care had to be taken to ensure that the gauge was set perpendicular to the artifact, but when looking for small errors, care has to be taken period !

I do note that Dave's comment refers to DTI rather than dial gauge, but Neil's comments were WRT plunger clocks. DTIs can be accurate, but IIRC they only read "correctly" when the stylus is in certain positions relative to the body. I have a recollection of a DTI coming with an instruction leaflet that showed the effect that having the stylus set at an angle would have on absolute readings – not an issue if looking to adjust the setting of something to show zero deflection.

Nigel B.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by HOWARDT on 14/03/2023 13:42:24:

Have a look here, H Roberts. Local to me but no association, give then a ring though to check wether in stock or delivery time.

Cheers, this seems a very good price HERE …… Edit: actually you need to add £9 for delivery and then VAT

are they a reputal company?

Edited By petro1head on 14/03/2023 14:43:59

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