advice old British motorcycle

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I found or made enough parts to put my '29 ('30 model) BSA 350 Sloper together in a reasonable time/cost scale.

Really struggling with a '32 500cc version parts that do come up for sale are beyond what I think is a good price. I have been working on a Triton for nine years or more, not my bike but for a mate. It will be stunning when finished.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

get a opy of "old bikemart " subscription only monthly £ 2,20 a copy look up http://www.oldbikemart.co.uk trade and private sales ,plus spares,services and news of current events auto jumbles etc plus a bit of reading. My choice of bike would be Ajs or Matchless prices for these are lower than Triumph ,BSA ,Velocette, Dealer prices tend to be higher than private sales, BSAs have got dearer in recent years. My advice is buy a complete a bike as possible,genuine tinware can be difficult to find,also it can cost a lot in time / money searching for bits at auto jumbles.Avoid boxes of bits there is always a vital unobtainable part missing, good luck.I really like the lightweights so my choice would be a Greeves roadster 250 ,twin

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

I had a memory recall in 2019 a young couple of speed nuts took me to Burton on Trent to look at some old BSA bikes.

He bought a BSA C10 a 250cc side valve for £2600 it was the same model that was my first motorcycle mine cost £10 in 1959

[Mick DobsonParticipant @mickdobson]

Ian,

Your £5k or perhaps a little more will get you a Royal Enfield Constellation, Big enough for two up riding, not too heavy, a bike with real character. They have a very gutsy engine and it was at one time the biggest displacement parallel twin (692cc) when the competitors were at 650cc. Plenty of spares back up too.

Good luck In your search, Mick

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Windy on 07/07/2021 19:50:20:

I had a memory recall in 2019 a young couple of speed nuts took me to Burton on Trent to look at some old BSA bikes.

He bought a BSA C10 a 250cc side valve for £2600 it was the same model that was my first motorcycle mine cost £10 in 1959

I sold mine 35 years ago for ~£100. Awful machine, no power, handling like a banana. I think they were nicknamed 'grey porridge' which just about sums them up

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

Posted by duncan webster on 07/07/2021 20:44:20:

I sold mine 35 years ago for ~£100. Awful machine, no power, handling like a banana. I think they were nicknamed 'grey porridge' which just about sums them up

They were crap more of a ride to work machine most were scrapped so a daft price now compares to same year 250 ohv.

I had not ridden a bike since 1977 so a treat for me in 2019 riding it at Elvington speed meeting I did 40 mph down runway 26.

Edited By Windy on 07/07/2021 21:13:34

Edited By Windy on 07/07/2021 21:17:52

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

I have just sold my 1950 plunger framed BSA 350 B31 and my 1972 Honda XL250, both of which were really only suitable for one up riding and not very comfortable after about twenty miles or so.

With the proceeds I have bought a brand new 900cc Triumph T100 Bonneville which I am collecting tomorrow.

I can recommend one of these if you want something a bit retro but with a few mod cons as well.
They can be picked up second hand for around what your budget is.

Phil

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Posted by Robin Dufton on 07/07/2021 00:01:54:

I've always liked the look of the Sunbeam S7 Deluxe for the American styling although they're over budget. £5k is a bit tight for a decent classic bike as even Noddy bikes are £2k. I have my well used RGV250 up for sale at the moment for £6k, and mint bikes are over £9k, as classic bikes prices are through the roof at the moment.

AFAIK, the rear wheel worm drive was gun metal and wore out quickly and the lack of air cooled back cylinder used to over heat on a long ride. They look however but so does an elephant but i wouldnt want to own one

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Whats the opinion on the machining and materials quality of the Indian Enfields?

 

I mention this because Lister staionary twin cyl diesel model cs were popular prewar power plants giving 10hp

but they went bust post war and the designs were taken up in India popularly known as Listeroids. they were sold all over the far east to power rice mills, but they had a poor reputation for crankshaft breakage – due to poor casting material

 

A guy in USA bought a new one and had it crated over.  He took one look and stripped it down to every last nut and bolt, cleaned up all the casting from swarf and scale, and often re threaded with proper nuts and bolts as the finish and clearances were so bad.

He got it up and running for his off grid gen set

 

He said he wouldnt do it again and doesnt trust its reliability

contrast that with another workhorse that sold millions – Kubota

Edited By brian jones 11 on 08/07/2021 19:06:45

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

When I had a Royal Enfield trials bike,the supposedly quickly detachable lighting set was definitely not quick and in 1960 most trials riders also had to use their bikes to get too work,so I bought a BSA C11 G ,250 OHV rigid for a couple of weeks wages, excellent starter(coil ignition) good forks ,the rest was crap,lousy brakes which lock up the back wheel by only just touching the pedal,and a front one that had no stopping power .road holding was dangerous it got scrapped when the dynamo/battery / control box all failed,the forks and front wheel were fitted to a friends 197 Norman trials bike as early Normans had crap forks. So it was back to riding my push bike to work until I had a great misfortune by going off course in a trials section and into deep water over the engine,it was at Bordon Hants which is very sandy so the engine got filled uo with sandy water. A drain out and rebore and a quick trade in for a brand new 250 Greeves Scottish with q/d lights ,when I sold the Greeves 3 1/2 years later the Enfield was still in the dealers showroom, too many spectators saw me drown the bike and ride off in cloud of smoke,The Greeves on trials tyres had far better road holding,brakes etc than that awful BSA, It was bikes like that BSA that got motor cycling a dangerous reputation.

[Phill SpowartParticipant @phillspowart84010]

Sure you can't be tempted by the japanese side? I've heard the Yamaha XS650 described as the best Triumph twin ever made…

Or, if you're near Derbyshire, I can put you in contact with a mate who has a very pretty Triumph Daytona (original triumph that is) going for around your budget.

[george baker 1Participant @georgebaker1]

Hi

put me out of my misery Ian, What did you buy?

George

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

Whats the opinion on the machining and materials quality of the Indian Enfields?

Depends in part on the age of the bike – the later ones got better in most regards.

Do you want to ride more or fettle more ?

If you mainly want to ride, then go for a later Unit Construction Engine (UCE) Classic or Bullet model. These only went out of production last year, as they didn't meet the Euro 5 requirements that came in this year. Earlier carbed bikes go for £2.5 – 3 K, while the later fuel injected versions are £3.5 – 4.5K. Prices seem to be holding firm, as there will not be a replacement for the 500 that was sold here (the Indian home market prefers the 350 version that we didn't get). Rated at 27hp, the UCE 500s keep up with modern traffic & mine is returning around 90mpg. Handling is OK, thought the ride is firm. Disc front brake better than the older models TLS drum.

The all new 350 replacement for the UCE platform started coming in this Summer & starts from under £4k new with a 3 year warranty. If 20hp suits your requirements (about the same as an original British 350, but with modern reliability & refinement), they are getting very positive reviews. Build quality looks to be a lot better than the outgoing UCE 500.

I have a 2016 Classic 500 EFI bought used this Summer and find it very pleasant to ride, but with much lower fettling requirement than the earlier 4 speed iron barrelled models (I have had both 350 & 500 versions of those in the past). I have test ride on the 350 Meteor booked for Friday, though style-wise I would prefer the replacement for the Classic that is coming in next year.

If you mainly want to fettle, the pre-unit bikes do require a lot more of that but can still be fun. Both mine were pretty reliable (the 350 had an appetite for rectifier / regulator modules but I was never left stranded) and oil-tight. Finish needs constant work to keep looking good – chrome is thin & the polished castings fur up if left. They have a number of weak points, many of which were engineered out with the UCE replacement. Aftermarket parts to address some of these weak points that were readily available when the bikes were current seem less available (an pricier) now. Parts prices are a lot higher than when they were current, though, and they have been out of production since 2006. Finding an un-molested one seems to be getting difficult, as they attract the "customising" crowd, and prices are strong at the moment – I didn't see much under £2K when I was looking. While they all look much the same there were many changes made over time, so you would need to research what you were buying. Hitchcocks Motorcycles are the major RE parts supplier.

Nigel B.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I bought a 500cc bullet this summer, Not a mark on it, 2006, 4500m on the clock, £1500. Was I lucky ? Starts easily, and chugs along quite happily at 50- 60mph. A heavy machine. The only fault I have found was that due to a clogged breather pipe it would spit oil out the catch can. It transpired that a rubber non return in the engine fails with age and is easily replaced by an external one costing about £12. I bought it to ride and haven't had to walk home – yet ! Yes the chrome is thin but for what they cost what do you expect ? The threads are a bit of a mixture it seems, BSF, BSC, and metric. There is little to go wrong and when it does it will in the main be easy to fix, points push rods and a carb – no fancy electronics. Park it and it will soon draw attention, people are supprised to find it's not 50 or 60 years old. Hitchcocks are VERY helpful and keep the spares + Good Luck, Noel.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

There is little to go wrong and when it does it will in the main be easy to fix, points push rods and a carb – no fancy electronics.

The oil pump drive on the original design engine is a bit fragile & the floating bush big end bearing doesn't like running without oil. A 2006 bike should have a seal for the big end feed quill bonded to the oil pump shaft drive gear that (IIRC) is a mileage related changeable part – earlier bikes had a cork seal that could be changed without taking the casing off. There were aftermarket "uprated" pumps available, but they could cause the skew gears on the pump drive to strip – more used for bikes retrofitted with roller bearing big ends rather than the OE bush. A 2006 bike will have benefitted from Watsonian Squire's pressure on the factory to improve quality, so is probably as good as it gets for a 4 speed Bullet.

I found that the valve clearance setting was a bit "hit & miss" – while theoretically simple (no clearance, but pushrods free to rotate without undue pressure) a bit too tight & starting was a issue or (preferably) a bit slack and rattly. The rattly top end on my 350 was traced to an abysmally machined rocker bearing – less than 10 percent of the rocker shaft was in contact with the bearing, which looked like it had been "machined" with a bent nail. I ended up milling a millimeter of each face of the split bearing block (in 1/4 mm increments) & bore scraping the bearing face & still only got around 90% contact. Issue fixed permanently with aftermarket Samrat rocker assemblies.

Hitchcocks needle roller clutch lift bearing made a big difference to my 500 – always had a bit of clutch drag before fitting that.

Have you pointed the output end of your breather hose at the chain ? Helps keep it oily. IIRC a 2006 bike should have it's airfilter in the RH "toolbox" & the breather was routed into that – made the paper filter oily. I changed my 500 to the earlier "tea caddy" type air filter & "duck bill" breather arrangement that had graced my earlier 350.

I could not find anything at all advertised at £1500 when I was looking this summer, so for a clean low mileage bike I would say that you were lucky. My 2016 Classic 500 EFI with 6600 miles cost me £3100 & that was the least expensive I had seen for that model. That wasn't the reason I bought it – more important was that it was less than 10 miles away, rather than the other end of the country.

Are the tyres the originals ? Worth checking the manufacturing date codes, as 2006 tyres are well past their sell by date & should be changed sooner rather than later. I ended up changing my 2016 bike's tyres, as the previous owner had fitted oversized tyres for (alledgedly) aesthetic reasons. Handles so much better on the correct sized Avon Roadriders.

Nigel B.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Thanks for that Nigel, I will check the tyres. This one came from Leeds. The seller had accepted £1860, but when I arrived to collect it he told me about the oil issue and also a tappet rattle, then said give me £1500, there were spares with it, oil, and a cover. It has the duck bill in the catch can and he had lead the pipe in the air box down to the botton so as to not foul the air filter This idea worked, but both breather pipes had a slug of emulsified oil that was blocking them ! I have come to the conclusion that the rattle, which is intermitent, comes and goes is possibly an eccentric or out of round bush rotating, so your comments on this are very interesting. Having not ridden a bike for over 50 years it is probably not the best machine to re learn on but having spent my life in engineering in all it's forms keeping it going should present me with no real problems. Many thanks, Noel

[Rich Griff 2Participant @richgriff2]

JS, have I seen that bike in North Wales, pudding Basen helmet ?

[RannsachairParticipant @rannsachair]

Just seen this thread, sorry for the late advice.

£5k should get you a nice 500 single: BSA B33, Matchless G80, Ariel VH, all quite nice to ride. Perhaps stretch the budget slightly for a Velocette if you want something more interesting.

If you want something nippier I would look for an Ariel, BSA or Matchless/AJS twin as they are better value than Triumphs.

Good luck in your search, I run a 69 Triumph T120, a couple of Matchless singles from the mid 50s and a 72 BMW R75/5, they are great fun.

[Author]

Posts