Advertising for paid work

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

Having recently been censured for offering to do paid work in the 3D printing thread, I went searching for clarification on what is acceptable and could not find any guidance. Is this something that others have fell foul of or is there some guidance that I missed? If not, is it just at the discretion of the individual moderators?

Mark

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with doing paid work.

By doing this (paid work) I have fed my family for many, many years.

I saw your advert and it was pretty explicit, it was for the hobbyist. This should be encouraged. I have no idea – nor do I particularly wish to know – who censured your post. But I would love to see the rule that says you should not have done this. Retrospective rule making is just not the way forward.

graham.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hi Mark,

As you will see we have a fair amount of advertising on this website, all of which is paid for.

Obviously they would have a genuine cause for grievance if their paid for advert appears next to a mesasage advertising the same service who has not paid for the right to do so.

The terms and conditions are quite clear that users will not:

• Upload, post or otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, or any other form of solicitation.

So, I'm afraid you broke the rules and the post was fairly removed.

I realise your posting was intended as an offer of a service to help out fellow model engineers. If it is just that and not part of a proper business, you may be eligible to post a free classified ad on the website.

"Classified adverts are for the use of private individuals. For trade sales please contact Ben Rayment ben.rayment@myhobbystore.com or telephone 01689 899280. "

I hope that helps explain how it works.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

This item in the T&Cs of the forum under Member Conduct would be the most likely to cover it

"Upload, post or otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, or any other form of solicitation" (My Bold)

I did not see your particular post before it was edited so can't comment on that specific case, It is to some extent upto the Moderators descretion, I did also edit a post early on in this thread for a similar reason.

We (the moderators) cannot watch every single post so if anyone feels that a post is for Commercial gain then please use the report button to bring it to our attension, this has been used a few times recently and the offender dealt with.

J

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

This really is a totally bizarre & weird forum

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Mick whats weird, do you see many forums where every thread is littered with spam posts offering all sorts for sale. No because its against the forum rules and the Mods delete all the spam before you get a chance to see it.

If we did not have these rules the forum would be awash with spam as if we allow one we have to allow them all.

J

[John HewesParticipant @johnhewes50816]

The rule seems perfectly reasonable to me.

If you want to advertise, then pay for it like everyone else. If you are offering specific help to an individual, on a one off basis, then PM them. But don'e expect any support if you keep doing it!

Cheers

John

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

It is bizarre & you cannot see it from your perspective.

From my perspective, this is a community of like minded folk.

What is it from your perspective?

At this moment I'm thinking you have both eyes on £revenue generation, leaving no eyes on community spirit.

Does this forum exist solely to promote magazine sales, or does this forum exist for the mutual benefit of its members?

Forgive me if I have it all wrong, but I always thought that the internets was free of commercial restraints.

[JoParticipant @jo]

Jason,

Most forum software will allow you, as a moderator, to read all deleted posts. This allows all Mods to be able to see that another's Mods actions was fair and reasonable. I would be very concerned if this forum's software did not allow for that.

No doubt you guys have your own Mods area where such things are discussed and it is important that the evidence (deleted posts) is available for such discussions to avoid individual moderators being seen as "heavy handed", I would also assume that other mods can re-instate posts that they saw as being unreasonably deleted.

In addition the forum software should be able to show all actions of Admins/mods/members so that if someone decided to delete something from the "deleted item area" to hide their actions, then the evidence of their actions still existed .

—

Mark: send the guy a PM rather than doing it on the open forum.

Jo

(Admin MEM)

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Unfortunately the antiquated forum software does not allow any of that Jo, it even seems that it is based on a dial up service as it is Soooo slow.

J

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Isn't it a bit bizarre that you can make money by selling things, tools, books etc etc but can't advertise for paid work. There are some of us who can't carry out certain operations and would be only too glad to find another model engineer to do it for them – for money.

BobH

[John HewesParticipant @johnhewes50816]

Mick, everybody on here helps everybody else where they can and that is a great community, just as it should be. I help other classic bikers who live around here, and they do likewise, in a different community, again just as it should be.

But there is a difference when people ask to be paid, that is NOT the same thing.

I have never asked for money to help anyone, and hope I never will. But if I needed to earn money from my meagre skills, then I would expect to pay for advertising the fact.

I don't think that professionals should use the forums for gain, do you?

John

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Bob, I don't think that is what Neil has said. The Forum rules say no soliciting. The Classifieds are a separate part of the ME/MEW web site which do not stop people offering a service provided it is not commercial.

While I would be happy to let the majority of clasified run, I would delete postings on the forum directing people to those adverts and I'm sure the majority of members would not want to be bomdarded with such posts, If they want something they are perfectly capable of looking for it in te right place.

J

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I didn't delete the post in question, but those who are unhappy should read my post.

This was not an offer to someone looking for help, it was offering a general service and soliciting for customers.

The rules are clear, and the only way to be fair is to apply them to everyone in the same way.. There has to be a line somewhere, and allowing exceptions would just make it harder to define and police fairly.

I did see the post before it was taken down (I can't do this myself yet!) and my impression was that it was inappropriate but well meaning, That is why I pointed out to the poster that, if it is not a commercial operation, the classified are the proper way to promote this service. It's not banned, it's just in the wrong place.

I would be keen to hear from Mark C. to get his opinion, as it was his post. He asked if he had fallen foul of any guidance and had searched for it, but could not find the guidance – for the record the 'terms and conditions link' appears directly above the 'add posting' button.

Neil

[JoParticipant @jo]

I remain concerned… I accept that Mark should not have been soliciting an income, which is very clearly unacceptable and against the rules of this and most other forums, but should a single individual (moderator) be able censor free speech, without the opportunity of peer review by other moderators?

Jo

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If there is anything that I feel is borderline I will contact Diane for a second opinion and I'm sure JS does the same.

But agree that it would be nice if all the mods could see what has been edited or deleted and by who.

J

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Revue for cad software in this months MEW.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

OK it was me that edited the post.

I have only this minute walked in and getting a bite to eat, so can you just argue between yourselves quietly for a few minutes and I'll get back to this.

I don't want to post what was written without Marks express consent – not fair but I will come back when i have the nose bag off.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I think your post above was probably a bit too terse for most folk here Jason.

However, I suspect you mean the "TurboCAD Review" on page 62 of MEW 213.

As a user of TCv15 – I was interested enough to turn to it straight away – only to find very, very few words that essentially informed me that Version 20 "has much more in common with Autocad than previous versions" & "the new interface is very clean and intuitive"

I mean that's it – it's quite hard to precise it any further, I kid you not!

Oh well, never mind. I was more amused than upset but on the strength of this "review" I will probably stay with v15 for a bit longer.

IanT

PS Paul (The CAD) has some useful training sessions on YouTube that I have just seen and think are worth watching for any 'occasional' user of TC (such as myself).

Edited By IanT on 14/02/2014 21:33:23

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

…a bit terse…?. Yeah ok.
One might say so was the magazine article.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

It has oft been said of me that I should come with subtitles

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

Thanks for the advice on where to find the terms, I had not read them until recently being directed to their location. I tried looking at the admin area of the board but found nothing of relevance which is why I asked, sticking them by the post button does seem to make sense once you know they are there but generally, on the longer threads I have to scroll down to the post button and only register the button I am looking for!

John, I am happy to have the transcript made public if you chose to do so. I suspect it would make things much clearer. It is a shame I do not have the original post script but plenty of the other moderators appear to have read it.

Neil, I do not want to place an add – I have too much work on as it is but I have a problem…. once an idea gets into my head, it can cause a stoppage so I have to do something about it there and then, it's a bit like getting a challenge. I suppose the answer is not to read the forum but that is hard when you have a home office and no boss. That was what made me do the model of the worm wheel for Andrews traction engine thread and the little motor for Rebekah – it was challenging.

Mark

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

I do not know Mark from Adam. (just wanted to clarify this) But I think people need to remember what his post said and he was quite emphatic that he was offering his services for Model Engineers and not for commercial enterprise. There is a distinction. I realise it may be a subtle one but not insignificant, especially cost wise.

Also, it appears to me that the chap had over a hundred posts on this forum so not a one off spammer. I remember quite clearly one person posting on here seven or more times and each and every one of those posts was to promote a machinery moving service? Why was that not censored?

I realise that there must be a bit of censure regarding commercial posts and people pay to advertise on here. But I believe the chap was genuinely trying to offer a "micro service".

That's my view on it for what it's worth and because I believe that I can see both sides quite clearly I am sticking with my views.

graham.

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by jason udall on 14/02/2014 21:42:32:
It has oft been said of me that I should come with subtitles

Where are they then?

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