Advance Notice – Leaving the Forum

[Andrew JohnstonParticipant @andrewjohnston13878]

After some thought, and for a variety of reasons, I no longer feel that I fit in here. So I will be requesting that my account is deleted on Friday the 6th. If anyone wishes to stay in contact please PM me and we can swap email addresses.

I will be continuing my Burrell SCC compound build log on the TractionTalk forum.

I am not going to go into detail as to why I have reached this decision, as in some cases it involves personalities. But I have the impression that the forum has changed. Many of the old school engineers are gone and we have newcomers, inevitably with different needs and interests. Many newcomers have far eastern bench lathes and mills. Almost all of my machines are ex-industrial and, by ME standards, fairly large. I have no experience of using the smaller bench top machines. It has been forcefully pointed out that my industrial machine tool experience is not relevant.

Andrew

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Well I, for one, will be sorry to see you go.  I admit to having myself downsized to a bench lathe (a mini one, at that) but that has more to do with old age and a willingness not to leave my executors with disposal problems.  I’m not so sure whether it’s possible to just “close” your account.  When it happened before to another subscriber when we still had the “old” software, all their posts disappeared and made a lot of threads a total nonsense.  Perhaps the new forum software will handle it differently.

Could you not just drift away and refrain from posting?  That way, we can keep your (often valuable and enlightening) contributions.

Best of luck with the traction engine builds,

John

 

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Ouch!,

We will miss your useful comments Andrew.

Bob

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Sorry to hear that Andrew but it does seem to be getting a bit narrow minded from that point of view, hope to have a chat with you at forncett and most probably Noel as well.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

It will be our loss, Andrew

I, for one, have always been interested to see what you can achieve with the industrial machines: Not because I could aspire to having such, but because it might inspire …

MichaelG.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Sorry to hear that Andrew.
I always though that input from the users of larger machines brought some useful perspective to the forum.

All the best,

Robert.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Will be very sorry to see you leave, especially as you hint there it was due to other people’s attitudes.

Does it matter whether you use ex-factory machine-tools, the modern versions made for home workshops, or indeed a Drummond lathe and manual shaper?

Not really, no: it’s what you make with them and how you overcome the difficulties that count; while reading of your methods with them is valuable to those of with similar kit.

So I would hope whoever “forcefully” remarked that your experience is “not relevant”, reads this and realises just how ill-mannered and foolish he was.

 

Rather than vanishing completely from here, why not as John suggests simply read the threads that interest you, and avoid posting anything at least for a time.

I should add I did that for a while a few years ago. I had suggested a machine setting dodge I thought potentially easier than the more common way, and received only quite dismissive, even one or two rather snide, responses for my blasphemy. It did deter me from posting anything for quite a while.

 

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Sorry to hear that Andrew. Your input is always of interest to me. Maybe as suggested just refrain from using the forum for a while. This will as said leave all your previous valuable input intact.  Best regards

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Well I have some ex industrial kit and I am not interested in far eastern mini lathes and mills. There are many regular posters here that share your outlook. I would pay no heed to some snide person who thinks that ex industrial machines are of no interest to forum members. To be precise, he is an absolute idiot.

It is your decision, but think of all the really useful posts that will be lost if you leave, all because of one narrow minded idiot.

Andrew.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Andrew, I agree with what others have said above. During my old day job that I had many years ago, I encountered many back-stabbers   of those that would criticise, but I simply ignored them, as I knew my work was appreciated by those that paid me. We can all give good tips and advice, whether we have big or small machines. My Boxford was used in industry before I bought it, and if some don’t like what I’ve shown of the things that I’ve done on it here, then tuff, they are not forced to read it. I like many others, have gained some tips from you, which can be applied to smaller machines in many cases.

Regards Nick.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

I’ll be another that would be truly sorry to see you go; in part, it was well-written content of interest and humour such as the ‘Cambridge Trials’ that first helped to convince me that it was worth coming here on a regular basis.

Bit of a shame that some miserable b******s seem to be too stupid to realise that models of a certain size requires machinery of a certain size to make them.

What I’ll especially miss seeing are such well-made parts, finished “just so”, Andrew.

A future diet of 3-d printed trivialities and discussions of motoring with an eye to the previous millennium seems even more real and less appealing this morning than it did yesterday.

Best wishes, fare well.

 

 

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well As I’m one of those B******s I’ll put it from my side.

As the others have said your knowledge and experience is a useful asset to the site. However when given as blanket advice it is in my opinion not always the best for that thread. Many a time I have commented that suggested cuts and feed rates are simply not possible to the OP with a hobby machine or if they are then that machine will soon smoke the motor or board.

I’d rather not see another thread about a damaged machine due to people overloading them so that is why I speak up. As you say yourself you have no experience with these less powerful and less rigid machines just like I would not try to suggest feeds and speeds for someone with a hefty horizontal mill as I only used one once .

If you felt my comment the other day about your photo was a dig at you then it was not I just mentioned it was “Your” photo” as I did not look back to see if there were more photos on the previous page.

If my not agreeing with you on some things is any different to you not agreeing with wrapping string around a lead screw in yesterdays thread then what is? Can’t give it with one hand but not take it with another.

A couple of posts above have said it does not matter what you use or what size items you make which I agree with but when appling what works on a big industrial machine without taking into consideration the capabilities of a hobby machine that is where our opinions differ.

As to the practicalities the new forum did have the option to delete your own account but that seems to have gone AWOL. Like others have said the best option is to simply turn off any notifications and then either just visit and don’t post or don’t even visit. This method has the advantage that you can easily return if you wish just like you have previously done a couple of times in the past.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Why is some people on here have to be always right

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

That may be so, Bernard, but sometimes posts can be hurtful even if making a valid point, merely by poor wording.

That is perhaps the biggest trap with any remote text-message, be it a personal one on a ‘phone or an entry on a forum.  It can be very hard for the sender to see it as the reader might, especially on an open chat-site with lots of readers.

I don’t know if that is the case here, though I would hope the offending posts were so by style rather than intent.

.

It is not limited to Internet things of course. I’m sure we have all met people of either category in face-to-face situations. Indeed three members of my own club were driven away from it by a very unpleasant reception by just one member with a reputation for thinking himself always right, when the trio arrived to help operate one event.

It is though sharpened on-line by the impersonal nature of simple text-messages, because the writer cannot judge how the reader – especially a complete stranger – will react. Many people will shrug off a gaffe, perhaps realising a one-off slight was unintentional but regarding repeated denigration as the author having the problem (often so!); but others may take it very much to heart.

When as I mentioned above, I laid low for several months, I was defending myself after rather unpleasant responses to just one post I had made in good faith. Why would I want to risk opprobrium simply by my suggested solution to a technical problem? Eventually I decided most of us on here do manage to rub along together in a reasonably civilised manner – but if my attacker was out to silence me then my eventual return showed he was wrong to do that.

 

In the end though, whether it’s unwarrantedly negative responses on a forum or arrogant remarks making people feel unwelcome at a club event, it can risk harming the host’s reputation.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Andrew, I will be very sorry to see you go and I wish you all the best.

I understand your reasons, but this is not the time to make my comments. I can see me following you and, if so, I will then make my comments.

Personally, I know we have had our differences but I would like to keep in contact with you.

JA

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Well As I’m one of those B******s I’ll put it from my side.

As the others have said your knowledge and experience is a useful asset to the site. However when given as blanket advice it is in my opinion not always the best for that thread. Many a time I have commented that suggested cuts and feed rates are simply not possible to the OP with a hobby machine or if they are then that machine will soon smoke the motor or board.

I’d rather not see another thread about a damaged machine due to people overloading them so that is why I speak up. As you say yourself you have no experience with these less powerful and less rigid machines just like I would not try to suggest feeds and speeds for someone with a hefty horizontal mill as I only used one once .

If you felt my comment the other day about your photo was a dig at you then it was not I just mentioned it was “Your” photo” as I did not look back to see if there were more photos on the previous page.

If my not agreeing with you on some things is any different to you not agreeing with wrapping string around a lead screw in yesterdays thread then what is? Can’t give it with one hand but not take it with another.

A couple of posts above have said it does not matter what you use or what size items you make which I agree with but when appling what works on a big industrial machine without taking into consideration the capabilities of a hobby machine that is where our opinions differ.

As to the practicalities the new forum did have the option to delete your own account but that seems to have gone AWOL. Like others have said the best option is to simply turn off any notifications and then either just visit and don’t post or don’t even visit. This method has the advantage that you can easily return if you wish just like you have previously done a couple of times in the past.

We’ve been here before Jason. This is at least the third time that Andrew has said he’s wants to delete his account on here. Disagreement is always going to happen. I don’t see the need for anything dramatic though. It’s quite easy to just ignore the forum for a few weeks or months and come back later. In fact that may have happened before?

Edit: I appreciated the Ignore Member feature on the old forum. It’s a shame it’s missing on here. So much easier to put someone on ignore rather than argue.

[Graham TitmanParticipant @grahamtitman81812]

I shall be sorry to see you go Andrew i don’t comment on much but do enjoy reading and watching what the machines of yester year are caplble of with modern tips and cutters .Takes me back to working with big Herberts and Webster and Bennets.

[Alan JacksonParticipant @alanjackson47790]

Andrew,

I agree with your comments and am sad to see you go, good luck with your traction engine and your other pursuits.

Alan

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

My experience is far more industrial than model, If I comment or offer advice it is up to others as to whether they take any notice ! A heavy cut on a small machine, we live or die by our decisions, if it looks wrong or sounds wrong then ease off ! There is little point in turning down the shank of a 1″ bit to put in the 10mm chuck of your small hand drill. If you have a small bench lathe then trying to do the work of a Myford S7or big Harrison would be foolish ?

I concur with many of the above comments made by others, I shall as Bernard has said look forward to seeing you at Forncett . IF you and many others who have come from industry were NOT here then this forum would be a very dull place IF it existed at all, stick around in the shadows for a while, may be reconsider ? Noel

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Andrew,

I am another who will miss your inputs to the Forum, I have also enjoyed and learnt from your occasional articles in MEW; I hope those may still be forthcoming.

I wish you well for the future.

Brian

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Hi Andrew,

I for one will miss your input. A lot of the time the comments are made out of envy for your set-up and ability. I know this from years of experiencing this in my career.

I too have felt I no longer “fit in” on this new forum, it is one of the reasons I have decided to give up writing, (as mentioned elsewhere).

If you are ever passing through the Forest of Dean again, you know where we live, and Jean can always rustle up a meal.

My best regards

Gray,

[John Doe 2Participant @johndoe2]

The forum does seem to have had some unnecessary attitudes and posts recently – some are actually nasty.

A guy has recently been talking about rewiring a Singer sewing machine, and stated that they had 50 years electronics experience, and were qualified for PAT testing. A reply appeared that in one sentence basically implied that all that experience and knowledge was worthless, and towards the end included the word ‘negligent’, which was clearly not the case.

I have suffered some – instead of answering my beginner’s questions, I am asked “who gives a toss” or told “I am effectively telling people to sod off”.

And “I am not going to tell you how to do it, you will have to work it out for yourself”.

Charming ! Absolutely charming.

(And all my engineering experience was apparently worthless too).

 

What is a person to make of replies like these, and how are they going to feel about the world of model engineering and model engineering workshops ? And why are membership and magazine sales falling away ? Hmmmmmmmmm.

Personally; I ask questions on this forum to benefit from the experience and knowledge of people like the OP Andrew, and those former industry engineers who have ‘been there, done that’, and who actually know how to do things.

Let’s be nice and encouraging to each other. If we can’t do that, let’s save electrons by not posting.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I’m not sure if we have tried an ‘account closure’ before in the new software to know the effect. As Andrew has contributed most days to often multiple threads vaporising his contributions would leave a lot of topics losing their useful posts.
I think the idea that MEs are only getting new far eastern machines is not quite accurate though multiple threads have pointed people towards them. There are more large industrial machines around than ever and I get the impression that a lot on here have big Colchesters and Bridgeports and those that don’t (me) aspire to a big enough workshop to house one.
‘Things will only get bigger’ to purloin a favourite political phrase. People used to run 3 1/2″ locos or 2″ TEs but now twice the size is common because bigger machines are available. Perhaps the forum should have a section specifically for big stuff.

[John Doe 2]

On John Doe 2 Said:

…

A guy has recently been talking about rewiring a Singer sewing machine, and stated that they had 50 years electronics experience, and were qualified for PAT testing. A reply appeared that in one sentence basically implied that all that experience and knowledge was worthless, and towards the end included the word ‘negligent’, which was clearly not the case.

…

Sigh, that was me! It’s in #750681

However, I fear John looks to take offence rather than understand the point.

Let me draw a parallel.   Does passing the driving test and having 50 years road experience mean that a motorist is a competent driver?   I say not.   The Driving Test has changed since 1970, the chap’s road experience may be entirely on quiet back-roads, and he might have 12 points on his licence, and gone blind!

Part of my job was recruiting technical staff with relevant experience.   As it’s common for applicants to sex up their experiences, it’s essential to verify their claims by asking searching questions. Alarm bells ring when candidates can’t provide any convincing examples.    Experience can also be honest but irrelevant, out-of-date, too specialised, too shallow, or wrong!  Either way, it’s negligent to take bare assertions of experience  at face-value.

John then takes my use of the word ‘negligent’ in #750681 out of context in a very misleading way.   I said:

‘Barrack Room Lawyers are harmless, it’s real lawyers you need to worry about! No joke being held accountable by a court if someone is injured by a negligent repair.‘    Is it not a fact that negligent repairs cause legal problems?  

Please don’t twist what I say.

Dave

 

 

 

 

[Martin Johnson 1Participant @martinjohnson1]

Andrew,

Very sorry to hear this.  As a fellow pilot of ancient British technology, I enjoy reading your posts.  I am particularly in awe of your CNC skills.

Very sad for the forum.  I shall PM you,

Best Wishes,

Martin

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