A WINTER’S CHALLENGE.

[opochkaParticipant @opochka]

.

Does no one actually design model engines any more ?
Something different ?

Here's a challenge for the coming Winter months …. when you don't want to be out in that cold shed !

Someone design a model engine,
so those folks on Model Engineer can have something new to make !

Any number of cylinders.
Can be two-stroke, four stroke, steam, water, air, gas, beam engine,
but no silly magnet motors.

Must have a very good chance of actually WORKING !

Engine can be as complicated as you wish, but all individual parts must be simple to make
for all home machinists on their machines from standard bar stock or plate.
Eg. no castings.

A free – share project for all and anyone to make = no money involved.

Send to me through Model Engineer inbox your design / hand sketches.

I will….

Convert the sketches into CAD models (Solidworks )
Make assemblies = make sure all parts fit together, bolt holes line up, ensure working clearances, etc.

Make professional quality drawings of each part in PDF, with dimensions, metric only !
put the drawings on Model Engineer for anyone to download.

Make video animation of the engine on You-tube, so people can see how it works.

You retain all copyrights.
You get all the blame if it doesn't work !
You get all the fame if it does work !

dave

[opochkaParticipant @opochka]

Design an engine

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Just come off the model boat forum and there is a thread dedicated to Vic Smeed, on here its LBSC. It seems that they were pioneers and that these days no one has the kind of dedication that they had. They ran out of time sadly and not ideas.

Where are the new pioneers? There must be some one out there?

Good suggestion Opochka.

Brian

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by opochka on 31/10/2017 06:45:57:

.

Does no one actually design model engines any more ?
Something different ?

You obviously don't read the forum much Dave, maybe a look at My Jowitt design and build or the current CHUKY one would be worth while. I also have someone proving the drawings for another engine – Muncasters Simple table engine and I have another completed one that I Just need to do the working 2D drawings for. Also another two in the computer one of which I will build over Xmas.

All proven working engines and a full build article so any novice can have a go at making them.

Diane would also welcome any ones new designs to go in the mag and you will even get paid for them. You will also find new designs in the mag as just about all the build articles are of engines large and small that are originals. So I really don't know where you have been looking Dave if you can't find new designs?

 

Edited By JasonB on 31/10/2017 07:49:42

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Jason I have read what Dave wrote a little differently he said new designs I took that to mean modern. As nice as the old engines are model engineering seems to be stuck in a rut it's the same old year in year out. We could perhaps do with a breath of fresh air in model design a new challenge.

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Dave – I am designing a two cylinder sleeve valve two stroke IC engine, but, it's only very much in the embryonic stage; whether it goes any further will depend on whether I think I can make it work and I only get to designing when I am stuck for something to do which being retired is not very often! So yes, there is at least a few of us designing engines.

Chris

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I can do new as well Old School, these any good? As I'm not a fan of barstock engines I won't be doing new designs of steam engines that look modern.

Rework of an older engine so it can be done without castings and at a larger size

 

Edited By JasonB on 31/10/2017 13:12:11

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Jason they are nice model engines but hardly new. Tuned pipes were fitted to high performance engines in the1970s ringed pistons also disappeared before that. Model engineers used to be at the leading edge of model engine design and development for example Edgar Westbury but no one has really taken up the mantle for high performance engines. The only modern racing engine is the 0.9 cu in /15cc built by the American model boat racer.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Dave, maybe you can confirm what you mean by" new"? Just something that reuses one of the systems that has been tried before over 150 yrs of IC or even more for steam or a totally new concept, bit like your other experimental engines that no body wanted to build.

J

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Just to put a bit of balance to what I am saying, currently building a Stuart Turner Sun engine it's making a very pleasant change from making new pistons for my tether car engines.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Has a model stepped piston two stroke ever been made? Bernard Hooper designed the Norton Wulf using this principle.

Mike

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I saw an interesting engine today.

It was a stove-top fan for a woodburning stove in Aldi, to blow the warm air into the room.

Thought it might be something really interesting (miniature stirling engine?) but it seems they use a peltier module.

/www.stovesparesltd.co.uk/stove-accessories/stove-fans/stove-fan-heat-powered-fan-4-blade.html

Neil

<edit> you can get stirling ones but they cost about 6-10 times as much!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STOVE-TOP-FAN-Heat-powered-STIRLING-ENGINE-Wood-Burner-ECO-STEELHEAD-BLK/152690732596

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 31/10/2017 18:24:26

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

sted by JasonB on 31/10/2017 13:11:28:

I can do new as well Old School, these any good? As I'm not a fan of barstock engines I won't be doing new designs of steam engines that look modern.

So what's the beef with barstock engines?

(Although you are obviously, perfectly entitled to a preference without needing to explain it.)

Michael W

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Mike Poole on 31/10/2017 17:59:42:

Has a model stepped piston two stroke ever been made? Bernard Hooper designed the Norton Wulf using this principle.

Mike

Yep

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Neil – a bit off thread this, but we have one of those fans in our place in Brittany. All our heating for the whole house is by two wood burning enclosed stoves; As it had been recommended to us, I bought one of these fans for the main stove which does most of the heating work: it does seem to work, very gently air movement but it does seem to circulate and give a more even temperature in the room.

Chris

[opochkaParticipant @opochka]

Posted by JasonB on 31/10/2017 07:29:06:

Posted by opochka on 31/10/2017 06:45:57:

.

Does no one actually design model engines any more ?
Something different ?

You obviously don't read the forum much Dave, maybe a look at My Jowitt design and build or the current CHUKY one would be worth while. I also have someone proving the drawings for another engine – Muncasters Simple table engine and I have another completed one that I Just need to do the working 2D drawings for. Also another two in the computer one of which I will build over Xmas.

All proven working engines and a full build article so any novice can have a go at making them.

Diane would also welcome any ones new designs to go in the mag and you will even get paid for them. You will also find new designs in the mag as just about all the build articles are of engines large and small that are originals. So I really don't know where you have been looking Dave if you can't find new designs?

Edited By JasonB on 31/10/2017 07:49:42

You obviously don't read the forum much Dave,

Guilty as charged, M'lud

Actually I did look at your models, you obviously designed them your self and they are quite sophisticated,

involving a lot of geometry to work out, but they include castings, and at a large diameter, requiring a large lathe.

I was thinking more about something small and compact, suitable for the type of machinery the majority of newbie Model Engineers would have at their disposal, until the bug gets them .

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

@ Jason B,

Nice engines and the four strokes look beautiful, any vidoe of them running?

The OP states new ideas but also states 'Any number of cylinders.
Can be two-stroke, four stroke, steam, water, air, gas, beam engine,
but no silly magnet motors.'

So I guess he means, unusual as in not commonly seen before, although I could be reading it wrong and as I don't have the skills to design any engine anyway it won't really encourage me personally.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

They only casting are the flywheels and at 4" – 5" dia hardly large and could just as easily be built up or cut from solid but with a flywheel costing £10 or less and a slice of CI to make it out of about £8-9 there is not much point in cutting from solid and a lot simpler for a beginner to make.

And if you have got small tools that Jowitt can be made half size with 50mm flywheels as could the other air/steam engines

Several others have been built by members of this and other forums some as only their second engine so well within the average model engineers tooling capacity. I have also had a few PMs today asking for drawings and build threads of the other engines I have shown so these are the type of engines people want to build. From your earlier posts it seems not many people want to invest the time and effort into making an experimental engine that may go round in an animation but may not have a chance of working.

Edited By JasonB on 31/10/2017 19:05:50

[opochkaParticipant @opochka]

Posted by Old School on 31/10/2017 08:44:03:

Jason I have read what Dave wrote a little differently he said new designs I took that to mean modern. As nice as the old engines are model engineering seems to be stuck in a rut it's the same old year in year out. We could perhaps do with a breath of fresh air in model design a new challenge.

Yes correct !

There seems to be a roundabout, that people get stuck on.

Newbies and oldies buy their second hand or new toys, lathes and mills,
and then buy a lot of accessories that might …just might…come in handy some day, then spend a lot of their time
adjusting, twiddling with and modifying their machines to the highest state of perfection,
for no real reason other than for something to do while they think about what model they are going to do.

When they DO eventually get around to actually start making some model engine or other, it will be
a Westbury or something similar, from the 1930's, just because everyone else has made the same model,
where there are widely available drawings and plans for it.

Same old…Same old …. Ha Ha. !

Old School….Not necessarily modern, although same but different layout and configurations.

Something simple like a 1/20 scale windmill actually pumping water, grinding corn, a beam engine lifting water in a mine….etc.

If there are no drawings for any particular model that is shown or offered on Model Engineer,

then people are unlikely to attempt building one, and revert back to Westburys.

If someone designs a working model, and gets it working, but they do not have equipment or the

skill to produce drawings and plans for it, so no drawings are ever issued,

then no one else will attempt to have a go at making it.

I am just offering to close that gap so that drawings are produced, encourage people to make something !

Not everyone is as skilled as JasonB.

.

[opochkaParticipant @opochka]

Posted by JasonB on 31/10/2017 19:00:52:

They only casting are the flywheels and at 4" – 5" dia hardly large and could just as easily be built up or cut from solid but with a flywheel costing £10 or less and a slice of CI to make it out of about £8-9 there is not much point in cutting from solid and a lot simpler for a beginner to make.

And if you have got small tools that Jowitt can be made half size with 50mm flywheels as could the other air/steam engines

Several others have been built by members of this and other forums some as only their second engine so well within the average model engineers tooling capacity. I have also had a few PMs today asking for drawings and build threads of the other engines I have shown so these are the type of engines people want to build. From your earlier posts it seems not many people want to invest the time and effort into making an experimental engine that may go round in an animation but may not have a chance of working.

Edited By JasonB on 31/10/2017 19:05:50

.

From your earlier posts it seems not many people want to invest the time and effort into making an experimental engine that may go round in an animation but may not have a chance of working.

That's exactly the problem as I see it !

No one is willing to step off the cliff to experiment and make something other than Westburys !!

Might work, Might not work. Will be fun trying.

Good thing Frank Whittle trod his own path !

[opochkaParticipant @opochka]

Posted by JasonB on 31/10/2017 16:36:42:

Dave, maybe you can confirm what you mean by" new"? Just something that reuses one of the systems that has been tried before over 150 yrs of IC or even more for steam or a totally new concept, bit like your other experimental engines that no body wanted to build.

J

.

……. bit like your other experimental engines that no body wanted to build.

Yes, that was really sad when no one wanted to attempt building that !

Very simple to make too !

There are other working model animations to choose from on my opochka you-tube channel.

I particularly like the aircraft engine,

But I don't expect anyone will be asking for drawings for any of them !!!!!

So I decided to ask on model engineer if anyone would like to design something,

and I will make the drawings for them,

maybe they will have better luck … Ha Ha !

.

.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

I reckon the simplest possible engine would be a 2 stroke CI with just two moving parts – the crankshaft and a combined (spherical) piston / conrod, plus fixed carburettor etc. Wouldn't be easy to start, very efficient or have much of an operating range but would be quite a novelty. No idea if anyone has ever made such an engine. If I ever tried my hand at model making, I think I'd have a go at that. But don't hold your breath…

Murray

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Ian Skeldon 2 on 31/10/2017 18:50:36:

@ Jason B,

Nice engines and the four strokes look beautiful, any vidoe of them running?

Video of most of them somewhere in this lot as well as some odd bits being machines, I like to use my tools rather than polish them

[Jon CameronParticipant @joncameron26580]

Hello Murray,

I believe you mean the wankle rotary engine. It could be done in a model scale, but simple??? Not massively. Lots of complex arcs to machine, that all have to be identical for the engine to work.

 

Here's a you tube clip of what i think your describing.

https://youtu.be/6BCgl2uumlI

Edited By Jon Cameron on 31/10/2017 20:12:49

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

OS used to do a nice little Wankle for model aircraft use.

[Author]

Posts