A Question on Bench Blocks

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Brian H on 26/12/2019 13:45:51:

I note that Chronos are listing these at less than £15 for a hardened and ground version.

Brian

they must have seen your post and have whacked it up to £22.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Ah, missed the edit window.
The 'other' Chronos, the one that trades on ebay has it at the lower price.
block

**LINK**

I wonder if it has wonky holes as they were originally suppliers to clockmakers.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bazyle on 26/12/2019 17:31:00:

[…]

**LINK**

I wonder if it has wonky holes as they were originally suppliers to clockmakers.

.

From the photo in your link … it would appear so.
[ if by ‘wonky’ you mean offset ]

MichaelG.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

ega

Didn't know that about the Starrett version.

Really I was just speculating on what might work for a product with more general appeal at a lower price point. Over the years I've done plenty of jobs with quick bodge holding devices that would have been better tackled with a semi-sacrificial block with a small Vee and right size holes fitted by me. Although I've always managed, much of the time with small work not only has a conventional Vee block been oversize but also arranging matters not to cut into a pain.

Something like 3 for £15, decently finished with a square, hollow, base and properly aligned Vee and plain top ready to fit the hole sizes needed as jobs turn up is a viable price point for me. But most folk take a long time to come to terms with the concept of semi disposable mounting tools.

Why a 3 pack. 'cos folk are reluctant to mess with their one and only without a lot of thought.  Supposed to be a jus do it thing.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 26/12/2019 18:22:34

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/12/2019 18:02:48:

Posted by Bazyle on 26/12/2019 17:31:00:

[…]

**LINK**

I wonder if it has wonky holes as they were originally suppliers to clockmakers.

.

From the photo in your link … it would appear so.
[ if by ‘wonky’ you mean offset ]

MichaelG.

As the one in your link is from Chronos, it is likely to be from an Indian company which makes for SOBA, and if so, the smaller holes in the vee are likely to be centered.

The block which ARC used to supply two years ago, with the offset were made for the U.S. market by a Chinese maker against a specific drawing given to them by the American buyer, as explained before.

The Indian made one cost approximately 50% less to buy then the Chinese made one. I am unable to comment on quality or material comparison other than to say that S.O.D. seems to be okay with the SOBA one he has.. please see his post on first page of this thread: 24/12/2019 13:57:19

At £15.00 post paid including delivery and VAT – Chronos – eBay price, it seems good value for money, especially as the main cost is in dispatch for a product which weighs approximately 750 grams.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 26/12/2019 19:09:59

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I thought, though I may be wrong, that someone had definitely shown the 'wonky' holes derived from the needs of gunsmiths rather than being sloppy construction or drawing?

Neil

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/12/2019 19:29:36:

I thought, though I may be wrong, that someone had definitely shown the 'wonky' holes derived from the needs of gunsmiths rather than being sloppy construction or drawing?

Neil

Yes, Clive and Speedy did. But some people are finding it difficult to accept that explanation, especially as gunsmiths is less likely to be a hobby in which one participates in U.K./Europe, and also as Staratts original patent shows the holes to be centered in the vee.

Ketan at ARC.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/12/2019 19:29:36:

I thought, though I may be wrong, that someone had definitely shown the 'wonky' holes derived from the needs of gunsmiths rather than being sloppy construction or drawing?

Neil

.

You are not wrong, Neil

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 26/12/2019 19:08:09:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/12/2019 18:02:48:

Posted by Bazyle on 26/12/2019 17:31:00:

[…]

**LINK**

I wonder if it has wonky holes as they were originally suppliers to clockmakers.

.

From the photo in your link … it would appear so.
[ if by ‘wonky’ you mean offset ]

MichaelG.

As the one in your link is from Chronos, it is likely to be from an Indian company which makes for SOBA, and if so, the smaller holes in the vee are likely to be centered.

[…]

.

Perhaps it’s just an optical illusion then, Ketan … but they look offset to me:
.

.

[ Click for larger image ]

MichaelG.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 26/12/2019 19:41:50:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/12/2019 19:29:36:

I thought, though I may be wrong, that someone had definitely shown the 'wonky' holes derived from the needs of gunsmiths rather than being sloppy construction or drawing?

Neil

Yes, Clive and Speedy did. But some people are finding it difficult to accept that explanation, especially as gunsmiths is less likely to be a hobby in which one participates in U.K./Europe, and also as Staratts original patent shows the holes to be centered in the vee.

Ketan at ARC.

One only has to look at the website of a major USA gun hobby website such as Brownells.com to see a variety of bench blocks made specifically for gunsmithing. **LINK**

The second one shown on the link appears in the photo to have offset holes.

I think Starrett supplies tools more for toolmakers and machinists than for gunsmiths, so no offsets on their block. Or maybe they do but just don't cater to the limited needs of the Colt 1911? Knowing Starrett, their block was possibly patented well before 1911 anyway.

Edited By Hopper on 26/12/2019 23:18:43

[egaParticipant @ega]

Clive Foster:

Here is the relevant page from Starrett's catalogue from 1976:

You will note that the longer vee is not at right angles to any pair of the flats.

I imagine that the old-style tailstock vee block was in practice semi-sacrificial.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 26/12/2019 23:03:28:

[…]

 

Knowing Starrett, their block was possibly patented well before 1911 anyway.

.

See page_1 … Dave found a patent [the patent?] filed 1921, and issued 1923

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 27/12/2019 00:05:39

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 26/12/2019 19:41:50:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/12/2019 19:29:36:

I thought, though I may be wrong, that someone had definitely shown the 'wonky' holes derived from the needs of gunsmiths rather than being sloppy construction or drawing?

Neil

Yes, Clive and Speedy did. But some people are finding it difficult to accept that explanation, especially as gunsmiths is less likely to be a hobby in which one participates in U.K./Europe, and also as Staratts original patent shows the holes to be centered in the vee.

Ketan at ARC.

I don't think anyone is disputing the gunsmith usage nor that some are made to a specific drawing as shown earlier. The point is there are clearly two distinct versions, one with offset holes for specific pin removal tasks and one dead symmetrical. As humans mostly expect things to be symmetrical (though the human body is distinctly not so) it would not be difficult for any seller, whether Indian or Chinese, to be specific about any deviations from what might reasonably be expected, or on ebay where lots of pictures can be included to show the actual manufacturing drawing.
It is the equivalent of the need to add "contains nuts" on foods that aren't usually associated with nuts.

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