A photo for anyone who ever claimed a Myford wasn’t a “Proper Industrial Lathe”

[JellyParticipant @jelly]

Spotted this earlier whilst looking up something to do with the (now demolished) Longannet Power Station.

The keen eyed amongst you will notice that nestled away behind the gigantic shaper is nothing other than a heavily used Myford Tri-Leva, the oddest of the ML7 variants, accompanied by a late model Harrison M300.

That concludes today's episode of lathe-spotting with Jelly.

[JellyParticipant @jelly]

Courtesy of Scottish Power

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Nor does ‘one swallow’ make a summer, as they say. They also say that ‘the exception proves the rule’. Many a “proper industrial lathe” has been used by a hobbyist.

Reality rules.🙂

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Looks like a long bed machine.

Edited By V8Eng on 02/03/2023 23:14:36

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

One heck of a shaper… but I just can't take my eyes off that shaper vice…

Presumably the guy operating that shaper had his own stepladder and very long arms

Edited By Ady1 on 02/03/2023 23:31:10

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

I've worked at two different companies making electrical and switchgear equipment where they used a Myford 7 as production equipment.

One place we had it for second operations after the parts came off the capstan lathe. That company made microswitches.

The other company made electrical safety testers. There, the Myford was used for finishing and modifying plastic (phenolic) parts. They had a standard moulding for the high volume product. There was a low volume product which needed a different but similar shape. It was easier/cheaper to modify the high volume part into the low volume one on the lathe, than to make a whole new mould tool.

My previous Myford came from a switchgear company in Croydon when they closed in the 1980s.

I can assure you that Myford 7 lathes were used in many many industrial settings.

It was the pukka deal in small instrumentation/gauge manufacture and repair work.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

My tiny Raglan mill came from an engineering company. But it most certainly was not used for any production process. I don’t consider that to be an “industrial mill” just because it was used in a commercial enterprise.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ady1 on 02/03/2023 23:26:28:

.
One heck of a shaper… but I just can't take my eyes off that shaper vice…

[…]

.

Typical ‘Estate Agent’ wide-angle photograph.

… Sketch the perspective lines.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ Jelly’s picture is hot-linked to this page:

https://www.powerstations.uk/longannet-workshops-and-admin/

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/03/2023 07:37:48

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I suppose it depends on how you term "industrial" I bet for any work of a reasonable size they used the M300 rather than struggle with the Myford but it would have been fine for smaller components but even then if you needed to screwcut something and the Myford did not have a gearbox it would not pay to play about with change gears so over to the M300 once again.

Edited By JasonB on 03/03/2023 07:49:16

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

For any work of reasonable size they would have used this lot LINK Nice long bed job right in the back.

The Myford was probably used by the instrument fitters. Powerstations in the pre-digital age were a mass of mechanical instrumentation and small bore pipework. Lots of pneumatic control valves too. Probably the Harrison too. It is pretty small by power station standards.

My ML7 spent its working life in an electric motor rebuilding shop and had been pretty much clapped out in the process. I know of another that spent its life in an auto electricians shop machining commutators and the like on starter motors and generators etc. But the Hercus (South Bend clone) was the more common small lathe in industry and schools and tech colleges here. That bit bigger and more sturdy. But Myfords would have been much cheaper in t e UK.

 

Edited By Hopper on 03/03/2023 08:29:26

[Clive IndiaParticipant @cliveindia]

Before you can argue whether a Myford is an industrial lathe, you might have to define what an industrial lathe is?
I have a Myford – I don't care whether anyone thinks it's an industrial lathe, but I can see a Harrison is better.

Proof of the pudding is soon found if you try and buy one. You soon find a good quality second hand Myford but good quality Harrisons are rare – mainly because they've been used to death in industry.

Edited By Clive India on 03/03/2023 08:46:54

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

One place I worked had a couple of Myfords used for making floats for flowmeters and another company used a Myford for machining cordite.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Baz on 03/03/2023 09:00:36:

One place I worked had a couple of Myfords used for making floats for flowmeters and another company used a Myford for machining cordite.

What were they doing with the cordite? I'd thought it was extruded in the profile it was expected to be used.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

My first employer had a saying ,always have one lathe in the shop with changewheels only,then if an odd pitch is required it can be screwcut without too much hasle.

I once saw a Butler 36 inch stroke shaper at a machine tool exhibition at Olympia, now that was an impressive machine.

[donkeyParticipant @donkey]

We had a shaper like that in British leyland.

we had competitions as to who could send the chips the furthest.

Brian

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

No-one doubts Myfords were used in industrial settings, but they are not, repeat not, designed for production work. By production work, I mean lathes performing the same operation thousands of times per shift, usually on a production line.

Production is quite different from the way most Myfords are used. Production turners repeated a narrow range of actions, and likely the lathe was configured with stops and other add-ons to speed up and de-skill the work. Production machines tend to be specialised, and the emphasis is on getting the job done profitably, not defending lovely old machine tools!

Production has always specialised rather than make do with general purpose tools. In Victorian times threads were made with taps, dies, and lathes. Lathes are still a convenient way to cut threads in small numbers and for special purposes, but for more than a century the vast majority are made by thread rolling-machines. As rolled threads are much cheaper and stronger than cut threads, lathes are rarely used to produce threads in quantity. The same applies to a huge range of other operations that could be done on a general purpose lathe, but rarely are!

General purpose lathes excel at general-purpose work. Although 'general purpose' includes short-run production work, Myfords and similar aren't suitable for mass-production. That role was filled by makers like Herbert, a much bigger manufacturer of machine tools than Myford. Herbert lathes are rarely found in amateur hands, partly because they are too big, but mostly because production lathes were thrashed round the clock until worn-out and then scrapped.

It's a question of how many hours hard work you can do on a bench lathe like a Myford before it claps out. Doing light general-purpose work, a well-maintained Myford will carry on happily for several decades. But they're not robust enough for piece-work on a three-shift system. If you don't believe me, try this: by this time next week, produce 5000 1.1" diameter EN3-washers, 1/8" thick, with a 33/64" hole, all dimensions tolerance ±0.002" You won't be paid if the job isn't finished on time, or fails inspection, but there's a 50% bonus if you deliver two days early. A requirement like this requires the operator and lathe to work flat-out, and neither will enjoy the experience!

It's not just that Myfords aren't good for production work, manual lathes of any type are rarely used in that role these days. Not only do manuals compete with specialists like thread-rollers, but CNC machines have slaughtered the breed in mid- and low-volume production settings. Not eliminated, because manual mills and lathes are often used for quick simple work that doesn't justify the cost of setting up CNC, and for specials.

Less so in the past, but as a percentage of total output, manual lathes of any sort are rarely used for production work, and Myfords are a niche within a niche. Anyone prepared to bet the farm that Far Eastern mini-lathes have never been used by industry? They're not designed for production work either, but I expect it happens. That small lathes are sometimes used by industry proves nothing!

I'm afraid it's necessary to accept Myford's for what they are – good, time proven, manual lathes with lots of capability that fit nicely into small workshops. They're small enough to tackle small work without driving the operator mad, and big enough to tackle fairly hefty jobs as well. However, their many merits don't make them suitable for churning out millions of brake discs. Not even in 1948!

Dave

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Well Myford supplied a turret tailstock, a cut off crosslide and a bar feed collet chuck. If that isn’t production set up I’m not sure what is. It doesn’t have to be large parts to be industrial.

regards Martin

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Even good old Spary has a chapter on production turning with the Myford shown.

When most people say a Myford is not a industrial machine they are talking about the size of work it is suited to and size of cut it can take nore than where it is being used.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The turret tailstock was a full-on rotary-indexed one mounted on a proper slide and carriage, so an expensive and serious bit of production gear. Not the little MT2 thing mounted in the standard tailstock for model engineers to make BA fasteners with.

How many factories actually used that and the other mentioned cut off slide and collets I have no clue. But the thought certainly was there. And remember, Myfords in their day were were a low-cost lathe, compared with say a Boxford or Raglan, or any of the purpose built capstan/turret lathes that powered mid-century production work, so may have been an attractive buy for small factories etc. turning out small parts such as electrical components, lock mechanism parts, shock absorber internals, type writer bits or a thousand other small things back when the world was powered by mechanical devices and not digital chips.

And the ML7 was originally produced to replace the M-Type, which had been used throughout World War Two for everything from onboard lathe on ships and subs through to mass producing aircraft parts by the zillions, so was probably aimed at the same market, small industrial use plus the model engineer market. Capstan/turret lathes then hit their straps in the post war era for production work, along with other "automatics" operated by everything from cams to eventually  ticker tape and punch cards so maybe that is why the Myford focus shifted to the ME market.

 

Edited By Hopper on 03/03/2023 12:19:12

Edited By Hopper on 03/03/2023 12:24:30

[JAParticipant @ja]

There is a difference between production and industry.

Jelly's initial posting is of a power station that produced electricity. The photograph is of either a large lab or millwrights' workshop.

I am not re-posting what I wrote in a recent thread but industry used plenty of Myfords, some may have even be used for production.

One other comment that has nothing to do with this topic: I doubt if anyone is going to tell you why they were machining cordite.

JA

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

No-one doubts Myfords were used in industrial settings, but they are not, repeat not, designed for production work. By production work, I mean lathes performing the same operation thousands of times per shift, usually on a production line.

In your opinion, Dave.

Seems strange that Myford made capstan attachments then. Bed and cross-slide units + cut-off slide, multi-stop unit & lever tailstock all still in the price list in 1992, though I can't see those items being of much interest to most model engineers. These items come up on Ebay quite often, so someone must have used them.

Mind you the con rod reboring fixture had disappeared from the price list by then – another item that probably didn't sell well to model engineers, though that would probably have been a sought after attachment at one point in time for motor garages.

I mentioned before that one of my former employers customers had several ML-7Rs used in the production of taps and dies in the mid '90s. If half a dozen ML-7Rs operated by ladies can produce the parts you make, in the quantities you want to make them, at a price (and level of investment) that keeps the accountants happy, why would you want a different (probably more expensive) solution ? Not all manufacturing is large parts, and not all batch sizes demand mass production specific machinery.

A Myford brochure about buying a used machines (and selling their rebuilding services) says in the intro that, at their peak, Myford was producing 500 lathes a month – I rather doubt that the bulk of them were going to hobby users.

Nigel B.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Being currently a non Myford user or owner, I think things are becoming a little blinkered.

As someone who has used Myford equipment in my industrial carrier. It is time to reflect that they did not only make the Series 7 lathe, which so far is all that seems as being considered.

They also made a very good Cylindrical grinder, the 254S and the 280 lathes. A 254S was used on a production set up in a toolmaking trade shop where I once worked turning O1 Tool steel, and EN 24T for weeks on end.

Regards

Gray,

PS

Did you know, Emco Compact 5's were extensively used by Aluminium Founders to prepare Lab Specimens.

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

People these days have forgotten what production was about because they have been spolied by CNC.

I know a Myford 7 is seen as expensive these days, but we (usually) don't think about making money with one. CNC wins that war every time.

In the old days the Myford was a fairly economical machine. If need be, you could buy one and cut it in half if you needed to. In that form you could bolt some other stuff to it, and -voila- You've got yourself a special machine for hob throbbing nibbly widgets.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by Andy Ash on 03/03/2023 14:21:37:

In the old days the Myford was a fairly economical machine. If need be, you could buy one and cut it in half if you needed to. In that form you could bolt some other stuff to it, and -voila- You've got yourself a special machine for hob throbbing nibbly widgets.

And you could machine cordite with it since it could be quickly replaced without spending too much money if the stuff caught fire.

JA

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Some highly opinionated views from someone who I've never seen upload a single photo of anything they've done in their workshop in the entire time I've been on this forum, where do such strong opinions come from?

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