A new version of “Charging’ : from a once-great name.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

First … Please don’t tell me to return this item !

I bought, from the local Charity Shop, a little LED desk lamp branded Bell+Howell

It is what it is … New and unused, of recent manufacture, made in China, imported into the UK  by QVC, and proudly bears the UKCA accreditation mark

I will use it, and use it safely … BUT

Item 1 in the instructions describes how to install 3 xAA 1.5v cells, and to replace them ‘as needed’

Item 2 in the instructions describes how to use the charging cable

”Power Table Lamp can also be powered by using the USB charging cable (included).

Note: In order to use USB port, batteries must be removed.”

[ it does continue, but enough said ]

.

The implications for the “innocent consumer” who has probably ignored and/or discarded those Usage Instructions are, I suggest, a significant risk of fire or explosion.

Discuss, if you are sufficiently amused or appalled

MichaelG.

 

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

It is NOT a charging cable as the cells are not I take it RECHARGEABLE ? Then the USB lead is a power supply cable ? BUT

To me Bell and Howell are/were makers of film projection equipment . Dad had to use a 16mm sound projector, I would often act as his projectionist aged 14/15, I knew the unit well !  My school had the same gear and if, as was all to common it played up I would get called out infront of the whole school to sort it out – often the science teacher had got the loop size wrong either side of the gate ! Fond memories ! Noel.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Indeed, Noel … and very reputable makers … unlike the present user of the brand-name, it would appear.

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ Yes, with no battery [of 3 cells] fitted, the cable functions nicely for suppling power to the lamp. … the risk comes from the description, the very concept,  and from the fact that the instructions will likely be discarded.

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

Wife and I have travelled around India the Middle East and the Med, electric safety hasn’t arrived there yet. We  wonder just how many get killed a year, but it seem normal and that is how they expected it to be. We have seen men up a pole surround by wires connecting more consumer to the system, some times a meter often not, who pays is mystery. Its not unusual to see a machine shop on the road side and rebar appears to be the metal for all jobs.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

Indeed, Noel … and very reputable makers … unlike the present user of the brand-name, it would appear.

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ Yes, with no battery [of 3 cells] fitted, the cable functions nicely for suppling power to the lamp. … the risk comes from the description, the very concept,  and from the fact that the instructions will likely be discarded.

The whole concept seems odd to me; I’m not sure which model it is so can’t quite get my head around it.

I’m familiar with radios etc where you could use either battery, or a wall wart type supply, but they all had a switch built into the low voltage supply socket which automatically disconnects the batteries.

Just out of curiosity, with the lamp powered off USB, but no batteries fitted, is there any voltage on the battery terminals?
Similarly, with batteries fitted, is there any voltage on the USB socket?

I did have a look on the government safety product recall site, and couldn’t see anything listed.

Bill

[Michael Gilligan]

On 9 January 2024 at 13:57 Michael Gilligan Said:

…
”Power Table Lamp can also be powered by using the USB charging cable (included).

Note: In order to use USB port, batteries must be removed.”

[ it does continue, but enough said ]

.

The implications for the “innocent consumer” who has probably ignored and/or discarded those Usage Instructions are, I suggest, a significant risk of fire or explosion.

Discuss, if you are sufficiently amused or appalled

 

Proving it’s a wrong ‘un requires a post-mortem. In an age where a high-end DAC can be included inside a cable, not difficult to ensure a USB cable doesn’t reverse charge a primary battery.  The electronics aren’t rocket science, so the lamp might be fine!

I’ll be very disappointed if it turns out there is nothing to stop USB volts blowing the battery up.  UKCA is Brexit’s flagship achievement! It shows those smelly Brussels hobbits just how easy it is to replace their untrustworthy CE mark with reliable British Quality Assurance.

Bell and Howell sold their manufacturing brand-name before I retired.  I think they stopped making stuff about 30 years ago. Not unusual: my cheapo Xerox CD player works well enough, except no way was it made by the company who did a brilliant job developing photocopiers and computer graphics in the last century!

Dave

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Lidl currently has packs of NiMH rechargeable cells but no chargers. How many people would just put them in their standard old charger.

[Bazyle]

On Bazyle Said:

Lidl currently has packs of NiMH rechargeable cells but no chargers. How many people would just put them in their standard old charger.

I use my old Jessop’s NiMh charger – seems to work well for the similar LIDL cells bought last Xmas – what should I be using ?

[Anonymous]

AFAIK, NiMH and NiCD can use the same charger. Only Li-ion requires a different (and special) charger.

Am I wrong?

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On 9 January 2024 at 13:57 Michael Gilligan Said:

…
”Power Table Lamp can also be powered by using the USB charging cable (included).

Note: In order to use USB port, batteries must be removed.”

[ it does continue, but enough said ]

.

The implications for the “innocent consumer” who has probably ignored and/or discarded those Usage Instructions are, I suggest, a significant risk of fire or explosion.

Discuss, if you are sufficiently amused or appalled

 

Proving it’s a wrong ‘un requires a post-mortem. In an age where a high-end DAC can be included inside a cable, not difficult to ensure a USB cable doesn’t reverse charge a primary battery.  The electronics aren’t rocket science, so the lamp might be fine!

I’ll be very disappointed if it turns out there is nothing to stop USB volts blowing the battery up.  …

 

 

Dave,

I will probably have a peek inside, in due course … but going by the instructions, that ‘nothing to stop it’ scenario is spot-on

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Information:

1. UKCA appears to be on it’s way out … a still-born

2. I have scanned the Usage Instructions, and put a PDF bearing today’s date in my Documents Gallery … as scanned it’s 2-pages, but I’m sure you are all clever enough to mentally collate it into a 4-pager.

Whether it’s legible will partly depend on the whim of this forum’s software.

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ rather more encouraging: when powered by USB, and nothing in the battery compartment, I read no voltage across any pair of battery terminals [whether the lamp is switched on or off.

The switching is by ‘touch’ so presumably there is some magical isolation feature included therein.

I have not tried [and do not propose] to power it by both battery and USB.

It does, however, leave the question of how they can call the USB lead a Charging Cable !!

[peak4Participant @peak4]

For your amusement bemusement; I’m so glad I don’t do US daytime TV. 😉

Bill

[peak4Participant @peak4]

As a slight aside, I’ve just picked up a couple of these from Aldi. USB-C charge only, no separate batteries.
They work quite well for the price. Our local store still had a few left last weekend.

Bill

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

……………..

It does, however, leave the question of how they can call the USB lead a Charging Cable !!

When I was trying to work out the model, I found a seemingly identical one, same brand, but with a built in Lithium battery.
Some pretty poor manual authorship going on I suspect.

Bill

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks [sic] , Bill … I think I need a little rest now !

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … mine was £0.50

… amongst all the noise, it looks like the real problem is Item 2 of the instructions.

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I’d trust the UKCA scheme…. but would I trust any UKCA or CE mark actually on an imported, Chinesium low-cost domestic gadget?

From a major UK retailer with its own reputation to consider, maybe, but if the thing is of unknown provenance, maybe not.

Especially with a design “feature” fraught with the risk of whatever hazard may arise from some unsuspecting user forgetting the instructions.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, the only thing I have from Bell & Howell is a projector screen from the end of the sixties. It’s the type which is rectracted back into a tube, which is positionable on a pole with fold out legs, like in the link, which is still in very good condition, apart from a small tear near the top, when it fell over once onto a small metal object, and has been patched up with a piece of duct tape.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175686875386?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=Cj0KCQiAnfmsBhDfARIsAM7MKi1HEBaQVJw6QKwLQfC5xCCxESi6ZB_7l6sWpGHEBlbqFuG1IdhXsTMaAl4kEALw_wcB

As far as charging batteries, the earliest I knew about such things, was when my late elder brother was explaining about two old glass accumulators that our dad had, although I never had seen them working, or being charged, which would have been in the mid to late 50’s. and dad got rid of them shortly after that, as he had no more use for them.

Similar to;

http://www.museumoftechnology.org.uk/objects/_expand.php?key=191

Regards Nick.

 

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

I’d trust the UKCA scheme…. but would I trust any UKCA or CE mark actually on an imported, Chinesium low-cost domestic gadget?

…

Why?  The way UKCA and CE operate is identical.  The problem with CE is that it was not checked or enforced, and neither is UKCA.  In both systems, the supplier adds a mark to ‘assert’ that the item meets relevant standards.  A reputable supplier does the checks, a dodgy one won’t bother, and is unlikely to be caught.

Worse, in so far as Europe does block unsatisfactory imports this protection no longer applies to the UK.  Now we have to spot and block bad imports on our own, which would be good if the new border were policed energetically.  It isn’t.

The government are backing away from UKCA.  It lumbers British firms with a lot of extra paperwork and complication for no benefit.  UKCA and CE both require products meet the same standards, so there is no saving.  Further, the standards are all defined in European rules embedded over many decades throughout UK law.  So far the politicians have done nothing to remove European requirements from British law, partly because many of the provisions are what the UK wanted anyway,  but mostly I suspect because identifying and removing unwanted law is a huge amount of hard work.

Dave

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Digression from the original topic again , but since I mentioned the Aldi reading clip lights earlier.
Lidl apparently have similar on offer starting today; Slightly more expensive though.
I’ve not seen one, so can’t comment on their quality

Bill

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

I’d trust the UKCA scheme…. but would I trust any UKCA or CE mark actually on an imported, Chinesium low-cost domestic gadget?

 

I wonder if importers like QVC are aware that the legal responsibility of ensuring that the UKCA mark is valid lies with the importer not the Chinese manufacturer.

Russell

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It’s possibly because if you leave unused batteries (especially Duracell, it seems) in something, this tends to happen:

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Yes it’s certainly wise to remove Duracells … I have even seen them leaking when  ‘in-date’ and still in the blister pack !

MichaelG.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Not so bothered about Duracel and similar ‘alkaline’ batteries, but leaking zinc/chloride/carbon batteries were extremely common if care wasn’t taken to remove them. No steel case to contain the mess…

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Anyone who likes ye-olde electronics and computers will enjoy CuriousMarc videos on YouTube.

In this one he discusses a still great name (Hewlett Packard), in which their expensive last century Real Time Clock based on a very unusual IC blows up when, not if, the built-in rechargeable battery fails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tHFH3yZj3E

No one is perfect!

Also, interesting look into Chinese fake ICs, and how to get the silicon wafer out of the epoxy case to check it with a microscope.

Dave

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Fascinating stuff, Dave

Thanks

MichaelG.

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