A model engineer gone wrong?

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

Chris….That's not true (that guns exist only to kill people)…..there are several olympic sporting events that are effectivley disfranchised in the uk by our supposedly democratic governemnt……..Even tho' the humble carving knife and carpenters hammer are far bigger killers of humans that any .22 target pistols

Lord Roberts helped the UK by setting up national target shooting against a national emergency…which turned out to be WWI….. Be thioughtful!…we can't defend ourselves now and a lack of shooting skills is lekly to be a severe problem again before too long!

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 15/11/2017 15:59:07:

Chris….That's not true (that guns exist only to kill people)…..there are several olympic sporting events that are effectivley disfranchised in the uk by our supposedly democratic governemnt……..Even tho' the humble carving knife and carpenters hammer are far bigger killers of humans that any .22 target pistols

I'm sympathetic but comparing the carnage that one gunman in the US was able to achieve in Las Vegas with that possible by any of the Islamist terrorists in London, who thankfully weren't able to get hold of a firearm of any kind, I know which democratic government I'd rather continue to live under.

Jon

Edited By Jon Gibbs on 15/11/2017 16:19:39

[Bob n AboutParticipant @bobnabout]

Not to mention, when the country is bankrupt and we go to war, every able bodied engineer with a lathe will be asked to make arms and ammunition out of national pride.

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

One of the latest "weapons" is a vehicle being driven into a crowd as we have recently seen in the UK

Are they going to ban the owner ship of these…..

Oh yes but only if it's diesel powered !!!

[Bob n AboutParticipant @bobnabout]

That would be the VW Claymore.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

David, I could not agree more! Registered firearms dealers have been a bit naughty of late. I just don't want any more regulations for genuine shooters.

Andrew.

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

I take the point about vehicles but they are clearly not as efficient when used as weapons and have other, slightly more utilitarian, applications…

Armed incidents –

Las Vegas – 58 people dead and 546 injured

Paris Bataclan – 130 people dead and 413 injured

Vehicle based –

Westminster Bridge – 4 people dead 50 injured

Barcelona – 13 people dead and 130 injured

On the whole, I accept that firearms do have some practical purpose, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that in their main use these days is recreational.

I don't buy the claim that markmanship will be useful when we have our next war. IME most marksmen I know will be well beyond recruitment age if a war comes. 

Jon

Edited By Jon Gibbs on 15/11/2017 16:55:06

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Yes recreational, I am far too old for active service.

Andrew.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Yes recreational, I am far too old for active service.

Andrew.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by OldMetaller on 15/11/2017 10:03:15:

I hope this guy isn't going to cause problems for those of us who make steam engines and tooling and other innocuous stuff in our workshops-

…

John.

Only if you draw attention to it by linking Model Engineering with illegal firearms.

Speaking of shooting yourself in the foot, I'd say Mr Paul Edmunds has shat comprehensively on the gun lobby. In yet another example a member of the gun community has proved that gun owners can't be trusted.

Tony may be embarrassed that he rolled out the 'knives are bad too' defence when he reads Edmunds statement to the police:

"Edmunds said he was "not responsible for the actions of somebody that buys some things", adding his "duty of care" only extended to not selling to people who "didn't look right".

He told officers: "Like me selling a knife and you take that knife and kill somebody and then the system blames me for selling you the knife.

"It's your problem, got nothing to do with me."

I think it's a shame but there you are. Some of us have shit for brains. Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people.

Dave

[Alan VosParticipant @alanvos39612]

Only if you draw attention to it by linking Model Engineering with illegal firearms.

In 2001 there was talk of banning flight simulation software. That didn't happen. BA etc. did stop offering sessions in their commercial simulators. Those came back. The politicians wil be busy with b****t for the forseeable future.

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

A point that seems to have been missed is that although a gun or knives or even vehicles can be used in a way that can kill or maim, however other than genuine car accidents which can and do happen, the acts of violence are generally undertaken by people who are criminally inclined. As far as I am aware, in this country, very few killings have been commited by a person actually classed as the legal owner of the gun possibly the same senario for the car. Knives and Acid are easy to hide away and easy to get hold of but it would be pretty damned impractical to suddenly ban all guns, all knives, all cars and the use of acids and alkalies, instead there should be much tougher sentences and prisons should be there to punish, deter and segregate the offenders. Then the criminals might thinks twice before embarking in criminal activity, if they do go on to commit an offence lock em up, who's going to miss em.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Sugar and junk food kill more people every year than guns, knives and cars combined, by a factor of at least 10,000. Just does not make good headlines. We worry about all the wrong things.

Edited By Hopper on 16/11/2017 00:57:26

[PeroParticipant @pero]

We seem to be forgetting that there is one common denominator here – human beings.

If we ban them (us?) we can eliminate murder altogether, assuming by 'ban' that we don't mean 'murder'.

Then knives, guns, hammers, cars etc become totally benign.

However if you are looking for a real biggy have a look at the current news reports on Yemen – mass murder all done deliberately by disease and malnutrition.

Have a nice day.

Pero

[“Bill Hancox”Participant @billhancox]

This discussion causes me to recall a good friend from Paris who worked with me in the Canadian mining industry many years ago His father was a major in the French Marines stationed in Vietnam in the early 50s. The Vietnamese revolutionaries were taking a piece of iron pipe; a spring and a nail; and strapping it to a piece of wood to make a very rudimentary shotgun. They were making their own black powder and refilling shotgun cases with whatever was at hand; pieces of lead solder; bits of steel; ball bearings etc. They used wooden match heads and toy caps for ignition. The intent was to fire it only once. Once was enough to get them a French weapon. One amazing bit of information that I have never read about was the care the revolutionaries took not to harm French military families. On nights when they were about to launch an activity, a Viet officer would come to the door and tell Joe's mom to lock the doors; turn off the lights and stay inside until daybreak. He assured his mother that no harm would come to any of the French households. Joe's mom and dad (who of course was on duty elsewhere) were both astounded at this act of chivalry. I was a bit doubtful of this story until I became friends with another mining engineer from Nice who was also a French military child in Hanoi during the same time frame. The same courtesy was paid to his mother. As the affair heated up, the families were sent home.

Laws will rarely overpower the will of a determined people. It has been proven too many times in history.

My digression.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Posted by David Standing 1 on 15/11/2017 15:38:20:

Posted by Chris Trice on 15/11/2017 15:30:21:

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 15/11/2017 12:27:18:

Unfortunately many people are murdered by knives in this country no chance of them being banned.

Tony

Knives do not exist to kill people. Guns solely exist for that purpose.

Actually, they do not.

Amongst other things, I shoot clays, paper targets, pigeons, deer and much more. All of the guns used in those pursuits were designed for exactly that, not to kill people.

Guns don't kill people, people do.

Edited By David Standing 1 on 15/11/2017 15:39:01

Actually, guns WERE designed to kill whether it be animals or people. They were always a weapon the same as bows and arrows or crossbows. They weren't designed to shoot clay pigeons. The safer forms came later specifically because of the risk of hurting someone with a lethal weapon. No one designs an ineffective tool.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Chris Trice on 16/11/2017 03:08:49:

Posted by David Standing 1 on 15/11/2017 15:38:20:

Posted by Chris Trice on 15/11/2017 15:30:21:

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 15/11/2017 12:27:18:

Unfortunately many people are murdered by knives in this country no chance of them being banned.

Tony

Knives do not exist to kill people. Guns solely exist for that purpose.

Actually, they do not.

Amongst other things, I shoot clays, paper targets, pigeons, deer and much more. All of the guns used in those pursuits were designed for exactly that, not to kill people.

Guns don't kill people, people do.

Edited By David Standing 1 on 15/11/2017 15:39:01

Actually, guns WERE designed to kill whether it be animals or people. They were always a weapon the same as bows and arrows or crossbows. They weren't designed to shoot clay pigeons. The safer forms came later specifically because of the risk of hurting someone with a lethal weapon. No one designs an ineffective tool.

Thank you Chris, you have confirmed that not all guns exist solely for killing people, and the ones that do can't do it without a human being involved.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I shoot prone target rifle. My rifle is singe shot, one has to reload manually. As a weapon it is pretty useless and if I wanted to use it as a weapon, it would be much more useful as a club!

Gun nuts are thankfully few and far between. Anyone wishing to join a target shooting club, needs to serve a six month probationary period before being able to apply for a fire arms certificate. Virtually everyone who is a gun nut is weeded out at this stage and would not get the essential club backing for a fire arms application, All the clubs I have been associated with take this extremely seriously and there is NO appeal against the club's decision.

Any club member that begins to show abnormal behaviour is reported to the police, no ifs or buts. Dunblane happened because the police did not act on requests from the club to remove the guys FAC.

Prone target shooting is one of the safest sports in this country. The insurance rating for the activity, is that it is safer than playing a piano (That isn't a joke but fact!).

Firearms control in this country is one of the tightest in the world and I have no quibble with that. I would like to continue with the sport that I have done for 50 years. Banning firearms completely would not solve the criminal use of firearms. It would simply deprive those law abiding shooters of their sport.

Andrew.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 16/11/2017 10:48:39:

Firearms control in this country is one of the tightest in the world and I have no quibble with that. I would like to continue with the sport that I have done for 50 years. Banning firearms completely would not solve the criminal use of firearms. It would simply deprive those law abiding shooters of their sport.

Andrew.

The majority of the guns used in crimes in the UK are either smuggled from abroad or are retro-fits and Saturday night specials. So you're correct, banning them here would have zero impact on the ones who use them for crime.

With the right expertise it would prove utterly impossible to prevent a minded person to creating their own anyway, unless you want to start banning table salt.

Michael W

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Excess table salt kills far more people every year than guns do – get it banned!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It's quite scary looking at causes of death.

The scariest thing is that the classification of deaths by coroners appears to be totally ad-hoc so it's impossible to make any real sense of the categories.

Over 10% of non-medical male deaths are intentional self harm or hanging/strangulation, a sad number which reflects on our society.

One definite statistic: 23% of avoidable deaths are cancers – check your moles! Test your testicles! Probe your prostate (or at least get the doctor to!)

Looking at external causes of death some are particularly unexpected. It seems that in 2011 305 people were killed by having their inquest adjourned…

15 people were killed by 'animate objects' – is this the rise of the killler robots?

But seriously, it's quite sobering reading such stats.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Here's a simplified and very sobering list you can simply filter by age and gender.

visual.ons.gov.uk/what-are-the-top-causes-of-death-by-age-and-gender/

Suicide is the main cause of death for men aged 20 – 50.

If anyone on this forum thinks their future is bleak, there's a brilliant charity called CALM, you might want to give them a call.

Neil

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

It's best to keep away from doctors, I didn't have high blood pressure until I had a work medical I didn't want. Apparently I have a 20% risk of stroke/heart attack, I prefer the 80% risk of not having one. They take your family history into account but that seems irrelevant to me, my father smoked 20 senior service a day and was a pilot and later an air traffic controller at Heathrow, I have never smoked and my colleagues comment on how cool I am even when a major production breakdown has 30 suits in attendance.

Mike

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Mike Poole on 17/11/2017 20:54:05:

my colleagues comment on how cool I am even when a major production breakdown has 30 suits in attendance.

"If you can keep your head when all a round you are losing theirs – ask yourself, am I missing something?"

Neil

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Posted by Chris Trice on 16/11/2017 03:08:49:

Posted by David Standing 1 on 15/11/2017 15:38:20:

Posted by Chris Trice on 15/11/2017 15:30:21:

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 15/11/2017 12:27:18:

Unfortunately many people are murdered by knives in this country no chance of them being banned.

Tony

Knives do not exist to kill people. Guns solely exist for that purpose.

Actually, they do not.

Amongst other things, I shoot clays, paper targets, pigeons, deer and much more. All of the guns used in those pursuits were designed for exactly that, not to kill people.

Guns don't kill people, people do.

Edited By David Standing 1 on 15/11/2017 15:39:01

Actually, guns WERE designed to kill whether it be animals or people. They were always a weapon the same as bows and arrows or crossbows. They weren't designed to shoot clay pigeons. The safer forms came later specifically because of the risk of hurting someone with a lethal weapon. No one designs an ineffective tool.

Actually I am pretty sure knives were equally up there with the intention of killing when invented, probably animals for food, and probably flint tied to a branch in it's very early stage of conception. As pointed out earlier although guns were undoubtedly invented to kill they have also become popular for sporting activities. I don't recall hearing or reading that any crime has been commited by way of a sporting target rifle being used, possibly because it would be virtually useless in such a scenario. Out of interest, I happen to own several bows, two or three of which would do far more harm to anything or anyone than any of my target air rifles, yet there are very little laws governing the buying and using of the bows and certainly no licensing. If all guns were banned maybe the odd lunatic who legally owns a gun would be filtered out, but the law abiding people would still be at risk from the criminals who have a tendancy to not register their weapon or apply for a licence.

[Author]

Posts