A change is as good as a rest

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Before getting to grips on some more ally for the next IC project I thought perhaps I should spend a short while progressing this project a bit further. It began far too long ago to mention – actually it was about 1998 and thoughts are very much toward having it run at next years Forncett do.

 

It’s the Waller Table Engine as designed by Anthony Mount in EIM but scaled 1.333 to 1. The flywheel is just under 12″ diameter.

It’s all made from ‘scrap’ – well spare – material. The base and table from steel plate and the cylinder parts from cast iron. This is extremely tough iron coming from the bed plate of a fifty ton press – I can’t begin to imagine how many blows that has recieved over it’s life but it should be well stress relieved.

 

The cylinder and steam chest were made separately and are held together by two 8BA cap head bolts and JB Weld which also does a good job of creating fillets for a cast look alike.

 

The flywheel is also a composite – what looks like holes in the rim are –  but they are infact the bottoms of previously drilled and plugged holes. Originally it had a half round periphery but it was decided to turn this off to give the flat section. (That’s what the filled holes are in the sidefaces to hold it to a face plate) doing this exposed the bottoms of the plugged holes.

 

When the rim was set up originally to drill the holes for the spokes it unfortunately moved on its mandrel so  the holes done had to be plugged and new ones drilled. As it will all be painted it should not be visible once finished.

The rim was milled initially from a flame cut mild steel blank on the new CNC machine on a Friday afternoon when all had gone home – that’s the real downside to retirement – no bloody perks!

 

There is a fair bit to do as yet but this week has at last seen the start on the working parts so perhaps as it grows you might like to see a bit more later.

 

Hope that’s of interest

 

Regards – Ramon

 

 

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 03/11/2011 23:22:36

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Will look forward to seeing progress

 

Bob

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thats looking good Ramon, I do like Anthony’s models but prefere them a bit bigger, infact for a bit of light relief I have just started on his Benson engine at 1.5 times giving a 10″ flywheel.

 

Look forward to seing more progress.

 

J

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Ramon,

 

That’s a fine looking start on one of the best looking engines there is.

 

> I do like Anthony’s models but prefere them a bit bigger, infact for a bit of light relief I have just started on his Benson engine at 1.5 times giving a 10″ flywheel.

 

I met Anthony (who is always happy to talk about his wonderfuly eclectic range of subjects) and mentioned that most of his models had 8″ flywheels and you needed a gap bed to machine them on a 3.5″ centre lathe – like my mini lathe. His more recent designs seem to all be with smaller flywheels, so my apologies if it’s all my fault

 

Neil

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 04/11/2011 19:44:48

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Actually when he was at Guildford the year before last there was also a guy next to him who had done about six of the engines at what looked like half the size so maybe he had a Unimat or similar.

 

Tehe flywheel problem is not just related to his models a lot of stationary engines have flywheels with a dia or around the 9″ mark as thats what fits into the gap on a Myford. I had similar problems when I had an Emco with 200mm swing.

 

J

[ronnie barkerParticipant @ronniebarker18785]

yea that looks nice ramon, anthony makes nice models and hesa friendly man who you can talk to, i just wish i could machine things as small as him!

 

alot of people are put of making a model because they cant swing the flywheel but just remember a flywheel can be turned on a milling machine with abit of thought or you may have a friend or club with a big lathe im lucky as i have a nice one but there are ways round it.

 

there are some nice model oil engine kits out there now which would be a change for the steam engine boys but dont be put off by the flywheel

 

jonathan

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Guy’s

 

Yes, AM has come up with some very nice designs over the years-makes you wonder what he will come up with in the future.

 

Like you Jason I have harboured thoughts of a larger Benson but to 120% which gives an 8″ flywheel if I recall correctly. I have the original drawings increased by such but have done no more such as change dimensions. I would be interested to hear how you are going to tackle the base if using conventional kit. My thoughts are very much using the RT or compromising all together and making it rectangular – but I admit the base has so much character. That said it will be a while yet if IC plans are to be kept to

 

I’ve had a busy though seemingly unproductive week -not much to see for the time expended but the piston/con-rod parts are near done – I’ll post some pics a bit later in the week.

 

Regards – Ramon

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes I’m still debating between making it from several thinner layers, using one plate of aluminium as its easy to machine on the rotary table but think I will go with using Corian which is a hard plastic and just having the top layer in metal eg cylinder base and pump/column base.

 

The basic outer shape of the Corian well still be done on teh rotary table but then the steps and moulded edge with various bearing guided router bits. Once its all painted no-one will know what its made from.

 

There is a bit about the benson company here

 

These couple of sites may be of interest, they both have some of AM’s models being scratch built with lots of photos of the builds. One and Two “Baubericht” takes you to the builds

 

J

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi all,

 

That looks like a nice project Ramon!

I will have to look up the model in AM’s books.

 

I agree with the comments on the size of his models. I have got a Benson that I am too scared of yet to try because it is so small…then saw at Forncett a 2/3 scale Benson built from scratch by a chap from Dereham! Did you see it? Beautifully made!

 

Am looking forward to watching your progress…and picking up on your tips as usual

 

Us old Suffolk boys have to stick together!

 

Best wishes to you and your good lady

 

Andy

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

 

That would be Ken Hilton Andy, he is a stalwart Forncett exhibitor (as well as elsewhere) and can always be relied upon to ‘be there’. A superb model maker he’s produced some absolute gems in the time I have known him and is a master of all things small. You should see his clinker built launch – 1/16 ply planks and riveted with 1/16 copper rivets with steam plant to match of course.

(You could say, in pure Suffolk of course, ‘He’s a roight ow clev’run’)

 

Thanks for the links Jason – I have seen the German site before, beautiful work if perhaps just a little bit gothic but black does give a stunning effect. Having seen how good the McOnie looks on there I was considering black for the Waller but not as yet totally sure.

 

The Benson link is completely new. Would you know if that catalogue has ever been reprinted and on sale anywhere. Many years ago – It was on my first visit to the Forncett musem – no big beam engine, no upstairs tea room and the Dover engine still in bits – so that dates it, there was someone visiting who was selling various catalogue reprints – I bought the Hindley of Dorset one, as well as Mumford’s and Bellis’s but I’ve never seen anything similar since.

 

Got the big end bearing and bottom end done today. If I can get the rod’s made next week I shall at last have something moving albeit under hand power

 

Regards for now – Ramon

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

No I’ve not seen a reprint.

 

I’ve had it bookmarked for a few years so can’t even remember how I found it but don’t think it was Googled something pointed me in that direction. Maybe contact the guy who owns the site and ask for a copy.

 

J

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Guys,

 

Finally managed to get a bit more done from above and pleased to tell that the piston is now fully conected to big end and all is turning over smoothly. For those who might be interested there are some pics of the build on the HMEM site.

 

Here’s the current state of play

Today has seen the start of stud making for the steam chest then it’s on to the valve gear parts. I don’t think they will all be finished by the time this intended ‘work period’ comes to an end so it may be a while yet before it will actually turn over.

 

I’ve had a much better look at this Benson site Jason, theres some nice horizontal engines on there too. BTW where did you source your Corian and in which form did it come in ie bar – sheet ? I do have a couple of small of pieces which I was intending to use for making the plugs for the Bentley but have no idea where to get it.

 

Regards for now – Ramon

 

 

[Brian O’ConnorParticipant @brianoconnor49474]

On the subject of what Anthony Mount will come up with next, the last time that I spoke to him he told me that he was working on a Corliss engine. I asked him if he had experiencing any difficulty making the rotary valves, but he said that they weren’t a problem, so I’m hoping that he will have it ready for display at either MEX or at the London Model Engineering Exhibition.

B

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Thanks Brian that sounds appealing. Do you know what form it will take? That said I doubt it could be fitted in to the ‘schedule’ – I’ll have to live another life to complete it as it is

BTW guys, I meant to ask before. Does anyone have any idea how the crossheads were lubricated on the full size engines like this one. I have tapped the little ends for some small oilers but am not sure whether such would be fitted to the top of the cross heads. I’m thinking possibly a small oil tank atop the piston rod with pipes leading off to each side but not sure if that would be correct to prototype. Any thoughts on this?

 

Regards – Ramon

 

[Bill StarlingParticipant @billstarling10428]

Dear Ramon,

Not sure that this is helpful enough for a formal post, but I’ve just been talking to Richard Adameck – my guru on stationary engine matters. When I said you were asking how the crossheads were lubricated his answer was immediate – intermittently!

 

Neither of us can recall seeing any lubricating devices on pictures of such engines, which went out of production around the 1840s. They probably relied on faith, hope and an oil can.

 

Very much enjoying your excellent workmanship and descriptions. Hope you get lots more done before internal combustion seduces you away from steam.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill.

[Brian O’ConnorParticipant @brianoconnor49474]

Ramon,

 

I’m afraid that I don’t have any further information on Anthony’s Corlliss engine. It was following a talk he gave recently at SMEE that I asked if he had ever considered making a Corliss and he told me then that he was currently working on one. Knowing Anthony it shouldn’t be too long before we all know the answer.

 

B

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Does anyone have any idea how the crossheads were lubricated on the full size engines like this one.

My understanding is a pot of lard on the steam chest, to keep it runny, and a brush.

 

Neil

 

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Ramon, If you are desperate for some sheet Corian I can send you a few square inches if you let me have your snail mail addy.

I think its just over a half inch thick. A very pale bluey white colour.

 

Clive

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Likewise PM me if you need some. Mine are either old samples that I don’t need anymore 50x50x12mm or offcuts though the latter are mostly dark colours.

 

12mm is the standard sheet thickness used for kitchen worktops and bathroom countertops, look out your local fabricators and see if they have any offcuts

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 16/11/2011 19:44:57:

Does anyone have any idea how the crossheads were lubricated on the full size engines like this one.

My understanding is a pot of lard on the steam chest, to keep it runny, and a brush.

 

Neil

 

Hi Neil,

 

Wouldn’t that be Tallow?

 

Regards

 

Terry

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Thanks for all your replies guys and your kind offer Clive and Jason. I wasn’t aware this was used for worktops so will investigate that source further. The small amount I was given is sufficient to make the plugs as hoped for so don’t feel right to take something from you that I don’t actually need per se but your kind offers are both very much appreciated.

Well, I think you have me convinced that there’s no need for an oiler. I shall have to fit something to the little ends now I have tapped them but will leave the cross heads without any thing structured though may drill a small hole in the top connecting through to the oil grooves I put in the sides of the cross heads. Incidentally strapped for a very small ball nose cutter to do these oil grooves I put a 1/8 centre drill in the chuck and very gently used it as a slot drill to mill these in – worked a treat but the depth of cut is minimal each pass – just a few thou and only as deep as the very point is ground otherwise the point breaks quite easily – yes you would be right there

 

Made a good start on the valve parts today so another update a bit later.

 

In the meantime, my thanks again,

 

Regards – Ramon

 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Seem to remember that some of the older marine steam engines were oiled with a splash of oil with a mop. Ian S C

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Ramon, could you not fit a felt pad and just oil the pad occasionally?

 

Clive

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Clive, thanks for your interest.

It isn’t so much the fact as oiling it per se – after all when its running on display a quick squirt with a drop on top of the crossheads will be more than adequate for a good session – but more an enquiry as to how the original might have had a form of oiler which I could replicate.

Looking at the very limited pictures in the few books on steam I have I couldn’t see anything fitted hence the question.

 

All I have to do now is make a scale tub of lard and lay it on the steam chest

 

I do appreciate all your input though, regards for now – now I’m off back in the workshop

 

Ramon

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