A Bargain

[VicParticipant @vic]

Or a mistake, we shall see!? 😬

[JAParticipant @ja]

Googled Machswon – it is a car and motorbyke store trading on various internet markets.

Looking at the main Machswon title on the advert it appears not to be inline with the rest of the script.

So you could lose £3.35.

JA

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Prices don’t look far out of line from the other (Chinese) spiral flute taps on Amazon. I have a set of five (M3-M8) bought for <£10 from one of the other suppliers that work extremely well.

For the occasional tapping job I would have thought they will do fine. Probably wouldn’t want to use them in a production CNC machine environment.

[Anonymous]

I had a set of straight-flute taps that went like that the first time I used them.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Interesting that they say they are “great for drilling”, I hope you are going to give that a try and report back to us🤡🤡

[VicParticipant @vic]

I had a look on eBay first for a spiral M6 tap and they were all about £6 – £7 each plus a two or three week wait from China. These will be arriving tomorrow and I didn’t think £5.35 for a pair (£2.68 each) was too bad?

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I generally look on it as there is no ‘free lunch’.  Buy cheap, buy twice is a good maxim.

[not done it yet]

On not done it yet Said:

I generally look on it as there is no ‘free lunch’.  Buy cheap, buy twice is a good maxim.

Alas, too simple!  Vendors making their products “reassuringly expensive” is also a common sales tactic.

The world has changed.  A hundred years ago, most production was labour intensive and therefore costly. However, it created a fairly clear relationship between retail price and how well-made the product was.   Not how production works today!  Far more automation and a plethora of new materials and techniques that reduce the link between price and ‘quality’.

Whilst in the past ‘Buy cheap, buy twice’ was sensible, the advice is suspect today.   For example, a carpenter buying a wood saw in 1924 was well-advised to buy the best he could afford, because cheap usually meant too cheap; rapidly losing their edge and hard to sharpen.  Today, unless doing something special, it’s more economic to buy mid-range wood-saws and replace them when worn out.

Does a pensioner getting into a genteel hobby at age 65 really need tools that will last 50 years?   Twenty five years after buying my mid-range wood-saw, it’s still going fine.   Reason: I’m not a full-time wood-worker!

Dave

[not done it yet]

On not done it yet Said:

Buy cheap, buy twice is a good maxim.

And often completely untrue. I bought a set of number drills many years ago for very little money at one of the shows. I was disappointed when I got them home to see they were made in India. They have though performed flawlessly in my workshop for over 20 years and get used often.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Often but not always.

OK, just buy your ‘bargain’ and keep your fingers crossed.  I don’t really care whether they are cheap and good or cheap and nasty.  Reporting back after they have been used a few times would probably have been a better thread.

[not done it yet]

On not done it yet Said:

Often but not always.

OK, just buy your ‘bargain’ and keep your fingers crossed.  I don’t really care whether they are cheap and good or cheap and nasty.  Reporting back after they have been used a few times would probably have been a better thread.

Who got out of the wrong side of bed this morning? 🙄

[John Gray 7Participant @johngray7]

I’ve only just realised I bought this 2 pack of taps about a month ago. I have used them for the first time tonight to tap 30 M6 holes in a 12mm aluminium block to make a small sacrificial fixture. All I can say is that they performed extremely well on this undemanding material. The swarf cleared well and the threads were well formed. Not tried any other material, but these were definitely worth the price I paid.

John

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

I also have a 5 set of these, no complaints. They were within my ‘prepared to take a gamble on’ price range and preform very well.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

I must admit that I get on far better with through holes and gun/machine/spiral point taps. This is probably due to my clumsiness, even when setting the clutch on a tapping head. I seem to be able to break spiral flute taps in blind holes too easily, from M4 to 1/2″ BSW 🙁 . I get on alright with them in through holes, but then the spiral point taps do them as well. My real favorite are roll/thread forming taps. If you have a large number of holes to do and can use a milling machine/tapping head, they’re bullet proof and incredibly quick.

Ignoring all that waffle:- there’s nothing wrong with cheap taps, I got quite a few sets from Tracy Tools while they were still in Dartmouth. If they’re rarely used, but might come in useful, they’re sitting in the draw waiting. If they’re needed for a lot of threads or break, they can be replaced as needed.

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

Does a pensioner getting into a genteel hobby at age 65 really need tools that will last 50 years?

I’d say that ratger depends how optimistic view of the future that gentleman possesses 😊 Sorry, couldn’t resist that observation.

I think all the points you make here are good. But, I also think there’s another variable – consistency. A lesson I learnt with my purchase of a tap and die set a short while back and subject of another thread. That is, there’s not a consistent relationship between cost and quality. Some very cheap products, as we seem to see in this thread, can be good, or at least fit for purpose. Whilst others, including the same product, bearing the same marketing name,  just purchased at a different point in time, can be absolute rubbish. Just a game of chance?

Andy

[John Gray 7]

On John Gray 7 Said:

I’ve only just realised I bought this 2 pack of taps about a month ago. I have used them for the first time tonight to tap 30 M6 holes in a 12mm aluminium block to make a small sacrificial fixture. All I can say is that they performed extremely well on this undemanding material. The swarf cleared well and the threads were well formed. Not tried any other material, but these were definitely worth the price I paid.

John

I tried one yesterday. The swarf cleared nicely and the bolt that ended up in the item seemed to fit well.
I have been using mostly straight taps until now so I’m finding spiral taps are somewhat nicer to use. I was gifted a couple of M4 spiral taps a while back and they worked so well I was tempted to buy some other sizes. Clearing swarf in larger tapped holes is not such a problem but if I see any more spiral taps at the bargain price I’ve just paid for the M6 ones I’ll buy some.

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Pleased your bargain worked out well Vic, it seems that quite often price does not reflect quality, sometimes a little gamble pays off.

[Andy_H]

On Andy_H Said:

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

Does a pensioner getting into a genteel hobby at age 65 really need tools that will last 50 years?

I’d say that ratger depends how optimistic view of the future that gentleman possesses 😊 …

I learned advanced pessimism in the University of Life!

I also think there’s another variable – consistency.

Agree wholeheartedly with that.  Consistency is what makes it worth buying industrial tooling.  Consistency is vital when time is money, because downtime due to having to change dud tools costs a fortune in real money.   But this is in a context where tools are used flat-out, which almost never happens in a home-workshop.   Industry measures tool-life in hours spent cutting,  whereas hobbyists measure tool-life in decades, most of that time with the tool in a cupboard!

 

… Whilst others, including the same product, bearing the same marketing name,  just purchased at a different point in time, can be absolute rubbish. Just a game of chance?

Andy

Agreed, but the chance element favours hobbyists.  Hobbyists do not lose serious money if a tool turns out to be too cheap;  it wastes our time, but hobby time costs nothing.  Production is unlikely to stop, because we switch to something else whilst waiting for a replacement to arrive.   And, because hobby tools are usually lightly loaded compared with brutal industry, it’s likely that mid-range tooling will do the job.   The chief risk is buying ‘too cheap’, which I avoid by purchasing from UK suppliers who respond to complaints!

As far as I know, there is no way of guaranteeing a retail purchase.  Price is a weak indicator.  Purchasers are misled by the rise and fall of brand-names, and these are often counterfeited.   Factory seconds escape.  Clapped out parts are tarted up, re-boxed, and sold as new.   Cheap goods could be genuine bargains: production overruns, bankruptcy sales, tax write-offs, shortage of storage space.   You name it, it happens.   Country of Origin is a weak indicator too:  most ordinary manufacturing can be done anywhere in the world.

It’s our job to de-risk purchases.  I don’t think it’s wise to trust simple old saws like ‘buy cheap buy twice’.  More fruitful to think what ‘value for money’ means in my workshop, which could well be different from everyone else!

Dave

[Dave Wootton]

On Dave Wootton Said:

Pleased your bargain worked out well Vic, it seems that quite often price does not reflect quality, sometimes a little gamble pays off.

Time will tell, I’ve only cut one thread so far! 😆

[Halton TankParticipant @haltontank]

Who got out of the wrong side of bed this morning? 🙄

 

Sorry totally off topic, but seeing above reminded me of a Dave Allen joke.

3rd joke in

Regards Luigi

 

[Author]

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