4 Jaw Work

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4 Jaw Work

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  • #165516
    Jack Foreman 1
    Participant
      @jackforeman1

      To all those people still struggling to understand the scientific principles, I apologise, unreservedly for starting this thread with photos of work which had no connection whatsoever with injectors.
      Blame Neil. It's all his fault really.

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      #165561
      Ian S C
      Participant
        @iansc

        Jack, no one's to blame, this is just an ordinary conversation as you might have with a few blokes in your workshop, or at the pub, and even if it's not how it started, we all learn something.

        Ian S C

        #165913
        Jack Foreman 1
        Participant
          @jackforeman1

          Just my implausible attempt at humour, that's all Ian. emotion

          I've looked at Gary's link, and examples of injectors – I've made a sketch [I'll apply some rational dimensions to it] I've found a billet of aluminium which will be suitable, and I intend to have a go at making one. It may never work, for no other reason than that I don't have an application for it – but I would like to have a go at it anyway.
          I'll post the results, in due course.

          #165919
          Bazyle
          Participant
            @bazyle

            The eductor is more like a loco blower and petticoat pipe, or a traction engine water lifter, or a compressed air vacuum cleaner, or a school chemistry lab water powered desicator vacuum exhauster.

            If you think the high pressure injector is clever bear in mind that there are also injectors using the low pressure exhaust steam, way below boiler pressure, that still manage to get that water into the boiler against the internal pressure.

            #165922
            Harold Hall 1
            Participant
              @haroldhall1

              I see Jack that you mentioned an "internal depth stop" which you intend to make from one of my books. I think perhaps you are referring to what is normally called a "Back Stop". If so, then you may be interested in the improved version, complete with drawings, etc., which can be found on my web site here. **LINK** The pages also detail the reason for the update to the design.

              Harold

              #165933
              Jack Foreman 1
              Participant
                @jackforeman1

                Thank you Harold. I shall look at that in a lot more detail tomorrow, and create a link into your website.
                A backstop is precisely what I meant when I referred to an internal depth stop.
                I am going to be busy during the coming months. emotion
                Your advice and **LINK** is much appreciated

                Edited By Jack Foreman 1 on 08/10/2014 00:01:20

                #165971
                John McNamara
                Participant
                  @johnmcnamara74883

                  Bernoulli's principle also applies to subsonic aeroplane wings
                  **LINK**

                  #165977
                  jason udall
                  Participant
                    @jasonudall57142

                    Or should that be euler s law?

                    #165978
                    jason udall
                    Participant
                      @jasonudall57142

                      Btw injectors appear from the above description to be anti entropic…fascinating

                      #165990
                      Neil Wyatt
                      Moderator
                        @neilwyatt

                        They don't break any physical laws. the do radiate heat so they are not 100% efficient. IF they were placed inside teh boiler to prevent this, the feedwater would get too hot and they wouldn't work. Nature has its ways!

                        Neil

                        #166005
                        Cornish Jack
                        Participant
                          @cornishjack

                          Similar functioning items in aircraft fuel tanks known as jet-pumps or scavenge pumps – slow but non-mechanical method of getting the last drops out of the tanks. Old technology to new technology!thumbs up

                          Rgds

                          Bill

                          #166140
                          Howard Lewis
                          Participant
                            @howardlewis46836

                            For an explanation of how Monsieur Giffard's injector works, and the pitfalls involved in making them, contact D A G Brown He is often to be seen at UK M.E. Shows on the SMEE stand.

                            I am sure that he has written a book on the subject.

                            As said, it is about converting the pressure energy of the steam into kinetic energy and so on. But talk to DAG, he will make it clear, so that even I can almost grasp what happens, not that I could make one so that correct and good operation could be taken for granted.

                            Howard

                            #167572
                            Jack Foreman 1
                            Participant
                              @jackforeman1
                              Posted by Jack Foreman 1 on 07/10/2014 21:42:54:

                              I've looked at Gary's link, and examples of injectors – I've made a sketch [I'll apply some rational dimensions to it] I've found a billet of aluminium which will be suitable, and I intend to have a go at making one. It may never work, for no other reason than that I don't have an application for it – but I would like to have a go at it anyway.

                              I've started on making an injector ~ again, out of a billet of aluminium, for no other reason than this is what I have a stock of, in appropriate sizes. I started by doing a sketch from the *LINK* information which several of you kindly provided; to ensure that I had a steam inlet, a water inlet, an overflow & a safety valve which incorporates the outlet to the boiler. That done I put some dimensions to it, which would enable me to access all of the internal parts to fit the pressure cone. (one cone will do for the purpose of the exercise)
                              So – the body is machined ~ I don't yet have a mill, so some of the drilling was done in the pillar drill and some done on the lathe in the 4 jaw chuck. All of the openings line up and are where I anticipated they would be [internally] and I have bored out the two ends to take the cover caps which I have also made. These will bolt onto two BA studs each. (I do appreciate that the real injector would have more than two fixings, but two on each end is sufficient for this exercise purpose)
                              My next task is to machine the four spigots for steam in, water in, overflow and high pressurized steam out. I intend to make the cone and the external connections with brass and use 1/4" copper pipework.

                              Can you please advise on the thread type and pitch for gland and connection nuts ?

                              Thanks
                              Jack

                              #167670
                              Howard Lewis
                              Participant
                                @howardlewis46836

                                D.A.G.Brown will explain in detail HOW an Injector works for steam, and how to make them.

                                He has now written a book on Injectors.

                                The Steam Injector was invented by Henri Giffard

                                (I say Steam Injector, to differentiate from the Injectors (Sprayers or Atomisers) used in Compression Ignition engines)

                                Howard

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