3D printing seems to have gone quiet. Where are we all at?

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 18/01/2015 13:22:05:

> Perhaps the time is right for an engineer to design and build a low cost printer and publish build articles in MEW. Perhaps using a light rigid famework from aluminium sheet or extrusions, decent linear bearings, and probably using a commercial extruder?

I would be very interested in such a project, though I think it might be even better to take it on as a collaborative project, perhaps through the involvement of the SMEE digital workshop.

Neil

I think this would be a big mistake. Very few would be made relative to most reprap designs so the user base and support would be limited. Better to take a good look at the existing designs and select a proven and popular design and look at ways to improve it with metal parts and engineering techniques where appropriate.

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

I tend to agree with Bazyle above, I have been offered a RepRap kit of parts with PBC etc., I've had a look at it as an alternative to buying a low cost 3d printer. I was thinking of perhaps building the RepRap but design in improvements right from the start. It's designed to be built with little tooling and low cost, with a workshop full of gear there must be some scope for me to make improvements in the build.

The frame is bolt together threaded studding so replace this with a more suitable and rigid frame.

The extruder build looks crude, is it a source of problems?, perhaps replace it with one used on the low cost Chinese machines, these seem to be available on ebay.

What other improvements could be made?

Perhaps an interesting exercise but is it worth the effort?

My use will likely be intermittent.

Nigel

[Peter BondParticipant @peterbond14804]

+1 – the heavy lifting has already been done in designing functional 3d printers, I'd be far more interested in what can be done to improve print quality. Reinforced parts, better alignment – perhaps more of a discussion on where the commercial offerings are weak?

One other thing that occurs to me: The local hackspace (who have gone all PC and decided they can't call themselves a hackspace) bought a small lathe. Immediately, rather than learning basic turning on a 1940s Imperial lathe, they became obsessed with how they could make it a CNC lathe… Great, but learn to walk before you run perhaps? Anyway… Is there a market for hooking potential new MEs by demonstrating how traditional, subtractive machining can be used to augment the shiny "new" additive machining?

[Enough!Participant @enough]

To illustrate what I was saying about the DaVinci above, here's a part that I made recently:

 

 

This is a ring-light for the mill. I saw an article in another mag not long after I got the DaVinci, which involved considerable machining and it dawned on me that this would make an ideal 3D Printing subject. (It fits around the spindle and uses circular arrays of LEDs – "Angel Eyes" from eBay). This was a somewhat modified version of the magazine design.

The laminations can clearly be seen. Also visible on the far side is a delamination crack …. I should have put a decent radius in that corner. It didn't take much stress for that to happen. I put some roll-pins in to strengthen it. (The red colour is from Locktiite, used – unsuccessfully – to fix the lamination crack and also on the pins. I'll clean it off with some alcohol when I can find my wife's toothbrush).

Nevertheless, for functional parts such as this, the machine is a handy device to have around. there's something really kewl to sitting down to design something with a CAD program and immediately producing the part.

 

Edited By Bandersnatch on 18/01/2015 22:55:32

[Peter BondParticipant @peterbond14804]

That's very similar to what I use on my microscope – and precisely the sort of thing I was thinking of in interfacing standard components.

I'm also quite pleased to learn that the LED arrays exist OTS, I had been going to do a PCB for a new one but these are probably more cost effective.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

I'd tend to agree with David – the difficulties are more related to getting the various operating parameters optimised for your plastic and your machine than any obvious shortcomings in the mechanical design itself. The machine I had access to was fairly well constructed but I had to finesse the myriad settings to get the best results. Some of the parts I made were pretty impressive in terms of finish and dimension but I initially struggled to get the thing working with ABS (which requires a heated table and thus additional settings to fiddle with).

You've got to remember what these things are doing so effortlessly. The raw filament is typically 1.8 or 3mm yet is laid down in 0.1mm or so strands. The toolpath generator and the physical control system have to extrude molten plastic at a suitable rate and position the head with deadly accuracy if you want a decent finish and accuracy. By and large they do a good job of this once you've got the settings cracked.

There is a large community supporting each of the main devices out there and you can often find someone with a similar setup whose settings you can use.

They should outlaw those cynical, overpriced magazine series. I doubt many printers will see the light of day. The Starship Enterprise series recently advertised on TV would cost you about £900 for a football-sized plastic toy – come on!!

Murray

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by tractionengine42 on 18/01/2015 16:48:22:

I tend to agree with Bazyle above, I have been offered a RepRap kit of parts with PBC etc., I've had a look at it as an alternative to buying a low cost 3d printer. I was thinking of perhaps building the RepRap but design in improvements right from the start. It's designed to be built with little tooling and low cost, with a workshop full of gear there must be some scope for me to make improvements in the build.

The frame is bolt together threaded studding so replace this with a more suitable and rigid frame.

The extruder build looks crude, is it a source of problems?, perhaps replace it with one used on the low cost Chinese machines, these seem to be available on ebay.

What other improvements could be made?

Perhaps an interesting exercise but is it worth the effort?

My use will likely be intermittent.

Nigel

That's the sort of thing I was thinking of. A properly engineered frame rather than studding and plastic brackets. In fact nearly all the plastic parts could be replaced with metal. Proper leadscrew or ballscrew instead of studding for the z axis drive. I'm sure there are lots of other improvements that could be made.

Russell.

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

That was the reason I went for the D5S MIni. All the frame is steel and it's pretty solid. The Z axis uses a proper 16mm ballscrew.

The type using threaded rods etc. must shake like a jelly when they are printing and there is no way you are going to get accurately aligned layers which is critical for good surface finishes. I'm not convinced about the printers that use thin plastic and plywood for the frames either, although the Ultimakers seem pretty good, maybe the best of the 'hobby' type printers actually but not the cheapest by a long way.

As mentioned before, my Mini was let down by poor quality rods and bearings but it didn't cost much to sort that. out. Originally, the end of the nozzle could rock from side to side by something like 0.5mm.

Whilst I agree that you need to spend a lot of time with the settings to get the best results, if the mechanics of the machine are not accurate enough, the results will still be substandard.

If I had the time I would have built one from scratch but I've just got too many other things on at the moment. For me it was quicker to buy a reasonable printer ready built and modify it if necessary.

John

Edited By John Baguley on 19/01/2015 12:38:02

Edited By John Baguley on 19/01/2015 12:39:04

[simondavies3Participant @simondavies3]

Posted by David Colwill on 18/01/2015 11:53:15:

Well having owned a 3d printer for nearly a year now I feel I should make a few observations to those considering or about to buy a new one.

Firstly 3D printing like everything else in life requires time and effort to become proficient. Time that I haven't

…

One final thing I should point out is that my printer is very well made and quite solid, so while I may not have always had good results I have never felt that the construction of the printer was in any way to blame.

Regards.

David

David,

Can you share the printer make that you own?

Regards,

Simon

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Some of you lucky people with 3D printers might be interested in this page, which includes a link to a library of files for models from S.E.M. images.

MichaelG.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

This is a link to the printer that I have.

**LINK**

Regards.

David.

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

That looks a nice printer

John

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I don't think an MEW Printer Design need be from scratch. So many of these things are open source, the best route would be to pick a good one, and make it better.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

At the opposite extreme from my previous link

Winsun prints buildings.

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I didn't hear the full story on the radio, the crew on the Space Station needed a special tool, so NASA sent up the program, and they printed out the tool on the Space Station. There was no mention of what material was used, or what the tool was.

Ian S C

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

I agree Neil. You need to know how they are constructed before you can decide how you might "improve" them. Some of them are little more than well constructed children's toys while others have more solid construction and use linear bearings, ballscrews etc. And there is no shortage of people constructing and modifying their own machines – and there's nothing special that uniquely sets model engineers apart from "makers" in terms of capability, vision or even experience.

Given the practical limitations of additive technology not least the the filament size, you'd need to look at the precision of a few test pieces and decide what improvements you could realistically bring about and at what cost in terms of time and money. Making a cast iron framework would undoubtedly increase the rigidity but I suspect it would bring about an almost immeasurably small improvement in precision in many cases.

There is a continuous spectrum of amateur activity ranging from building and modifying toy quality 3D printers all the way out to full-blown construction of professional quality 3D printer / laser cutter / milling machines. You can either join that (vast) community or simply go out and buy one to use as-is.

Murray

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Ian S C on 21/01/2015 10:47:43:

I didn't hear the full story on the radio, the crew on the Space Station needed a special tool, so NASA sent up the program, and they printed out the tool on the Space Station. There was no mention of what material was used, or what the tool was.

Ian S C

**LINK**

Russell

[MichaelRParticipant @michaelr]

3D Printing is this the future of engineering, see Here

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Wow that Cobra is awesome stuff.

3D printing is certainly getting some publicity, it even featured on Silent Witness yesterday, part of the story line was that they copied a child's hand then 3D printed a replica of of it.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> Some of you lucky people with 3D printers might be interested in this page, which includes a link to a library of files for models from S.E.M. images.

As a teenager I made a T4 bacteriophage from card. I rather fancy 3D-printing one some day.

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Russell, thanks for that, what sort of plastic would that be, and would it be serviceable as a tool?

Ian S C

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Stick on 21/01/2015 11:18:02:

3D Printing is this the future of engineering, see Here

I was amused to see that a British sports car, the AC Cobra (known as the Shelby Cobra in the US) had been voted an American national monument!

Interesting process, 3D printing with carbon fibre composite though.

Russell.

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

I just visited MOSI as they have a special on 3d printing. Expected to see the history and development but there is just a load of printed items to look at…pretty disappointing!

[VicParticipant @vic]

Interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31416838

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

Yeah it's interesting but I think I'd rather spend the money on a set of dro's for the mill. I remember buying a Commodor 64 for the kids (and me) back in 1983 thinking that because I was interested in all things computer wise they would be too. How wrong I was the only thing they seemed to be interested in was loading game after game into the memory, at 20minutes a throw, which was just as likely to finish with an error or perchance playing Falkland Patrol when it did load.

My advice is wait five years and perhaps get one off Ebaby for a tenner maybe.

Jesse

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