3D printing seems to have gone quiet. Where are we all at?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I was thinking of this version which has a rigid metal frame and uses toothed belts for the drive:

**LINK**

You can upgrade with a heated bed – you can't buy it as standard in the UK :-/ – which should mean you can use ABS?

 

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 24/12/2014 15:42:11

[VicParticipant @vic]

The results I've seen from the cheaper units are completely underwelming in terms of things like surface finish so what do folks make with them? I've seen discussions on a couple of modeling sites and many don't seem very impressed.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

To explain the requirement for a heated bed if you want to use ABS, if the bed isn't heated, the material shrinks and peels up and away from the bed, particularly around the edges. Looks like one of those sandwiches that's gone seriously curly after a few days. TBH, the PLA seemed pretty good.

They require a fair bit of fiddling, with periodic dismantling of the head to clear the nozzle. However, the finish can be pretty good once you've got it all set up and got the settings optimised. Both Andrew Johnston and John Stevenson produced some test samples on this forum if you check their albums.

Murray

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

I did see some good quality work by a chap located at the end of the SMEE stand at Sandown.

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Posted by Vic on 24/12/2014 15:46:30:

The results I've seen from the cheaper units are completely underwelming in terms of things like surface finish so what do folks make with them? I've seen discussions on a couple of modeling sites and many don't seem very impressed.

I suppose the technology is still in its infancy and also the old saying "you get what you pay for" rings true. A hobbiests table top printer really isn't up to the quality of an industrial unit.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The stuff on display at Sandown from the 0.25mm layer printers looks much (vastly?) better than other hobby-level stuff I've seen; certainly much better than some of the early reprap stuff covered in ME/MEW a few years ago. One very telling example was an object with one side left as printed and the other lightly abraded with wet & dry paper.

It's not just more rigid hardware, the software is improving as well – it certainly looks like the consumer end of the technology is 'maturing'.

One chap was printing demo objects at 0.25mm, although the machine was capable of 0.10mm layers, he said the difference in quality wasn't worth the extra time as the coarser print was good enough to impress.

My guess is the £4-500 price point won't drop much, but in a few years it will be as good quality as the low end commercial machines.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Although printed plastic might not be impressive at the moment one of the people at MEX said affordable metal printing would be around in 2016 as the controlling patents run out in 2015. Another was showing printed wax for lost wax casting which has more potential for us.

[VicParticipant @vic]

As said it is early days. Printing metal at home would be great, at least until they're banned in the UK when someone starts to print weapon parts. Ok for our American cousins of course.

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Posted by Vic on 24/12/2014 19:29:27:

As said it is early days. Printing metal at home would be great, at least until they're banned in the UK when someone starts to print weapon parts. Ok for our American cousins of course.

I think a ban on metal or plastic 3d is a load of nanny state nonsense dreamt up by tabloid media, i mean whats to stop criminals buying cnc machining centres an making illegal weapons that way ?

[VicParticipant @vic]

Nothing, but CNC is expensive and wasteful. No built in 3D scanner either.

I bought a CNC'd stainless steel slide for a Glock Airsoft gun. It was cut from solid steel and over 90% of it was milled away to produce the slide. Lovely piece of work if expensive.

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Posted by ronan walsh on 24/12/2014 19:34:03:

Posted by Vic on 24/12/2014 19:29:27:

As said it is early days. Printing metal at home would be great, at least until they're banned in the UK when someone starts to print weapon parts. Ok for our American cousins of course.

I think a ban on metal or plastic 3d is a load of nanny state nonsense dreamt up by tabloid media, i mean whats to stop criminals buying cnc machining centres an making illegal weapons that way ?

Exactly.  Since firearms have been in production since the 13th century,  they don't require any advanced machining at all.  A 3D printer is just another machine tool,  with some exciting new potential.

Steve

Edited By Steve Withnell on 25/12/2014 09:47:17

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

You don't need a miller or a lathe in order to make a firearm that can kill, I could make one in any office in less than ten minuets, banning 3d printers in any form is a dangerous precedence, perhaps a thing that should happen and probably save more lives, would be to fit all politicians with a big red light, nailed onto there heads that flashed when they lie…………….

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

“Nailed onto there heads”……esp. if the nails are long enough

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Would not waste good nails. It seems that you could be arrested and " detained" for having an O level chemistry book in the house . Oh it is Xmas.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by ronan walsh on 24/12/2014 19:34:03:

I think a ban on metal or plastic 3d is a load of nanny state nonsense dreamt up by tabloid media,

.

The 'printed gun' was a stunt by Cody Wilson [self-professed crypto-anarchist], intended to get people thinking … Unfortunately, the result was nearer to hysteria.

You may agree or disagree with his politics and methods, but he's worth hearing.

MichaelG.

[VicParticipant @vic]

A guy was arrested for making firearms in his shed a few years ago using manual machines. The point being he was obviously a fairly skilled machinist with a shed load of machine tools. Putting this capability into the hands of anyone with a few hundred pounds to buy a 3D printer is another matter.

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Getting completely off topic, but when tony b.lair was pm he did consider and had some of his minions look into the practicalities of banning machine tools in home workshops, as he didn't want people making weapons at home (not wmd i suppose).

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Never tried it myself but if your printer can print ABS, you can use acetone to smooth the finish. Won't help the accuracy of the final part but depends if you are after form or function. Doesn't sound as hazardous as you might have thought.

Murray

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Muzzer on 25/12/2014 21:33:46:

Never tried it myself but if your printer can print ABS, you can use acetone to smooth the finish

Might be worth a try. I recently got a DaVinci 1.0 and while it might be very useful for functional parts, the "scan-line" finish would preclude something like this.

It is also s ….l….o…..w. Each half of a case for a Raspberry-Pi took me about 6 hours – admittedly on a rather "good quality" (as far as it goes) setting.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Does make quite adifference, MEB mag did an article a while ago and showed how the surface could be refined with various methods including solvents.

If you are printing for pattern making there is a woodfilled material available that is easily sanded, a bit like printing MDF I suppose.

J

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

These are some parts I have made in ABS using my Da Vinci printer, With the use of wet and dry and acetone a good finish can be obtained.

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

So far I've found the general surface finish with the Wanhao to be really good, much better than I expected. I am having an issue with it though in that the surface finish is not consistent. When I print out a spoked wheel pattern the finish on the rim is excellent but the finish on the spokes is not as good, as if the layers don't quite line up properly. Haven't sussed out why yet.

I've rebuilt the gantry of the printer with better quality rods and bearings which has helped ( some of the original rods were slightly bent and the bearings a poor fit) but the problem is still there. I'll get it sorted though. I wasn't expecting the printer to be good enough for what I want straight out of the box but to be fair it was pretty good.

John

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

What do you use your printed articles for ? Do you use them as is or for casting patterns ?

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

I used the wheel pattern direct to make sand castings Ronan. The others are used as patterns to make lost wax castings via a latex mould..

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

Mine will be used for sand casting as well. It is possible to use patterns made from PLA in 'lost' PLA casting where the pattern is used directly and burnt out by the molten metal, as in lost foam casting. The cost of the material is so cheap that that becomes a viable proposition.

I've no doubt I will find many other uses for the printer once I get into it. I'm already thinking about printed tool racks for the workshop!

I printed out some squares today and found that the corners were not all at 90° so it seems the X and Y axes were not correctly aligned. A quick check confirmed this. I've realigned them now and there seems to be a definite improvement in the finish on the spokes

I'm aiming to print with 0.05mm layers reliably. Although there is little noticeable difference on the finish between 0.05 and 0.1mm layers on a vertical surface, it makes a big difference on a curved surface. Each layer produces a very visible step in the curve and the smaller the layers, the smaller and less noticeable the steps.

John

Edited By John Baguley on 26/12/2014 16:56:24

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