3d modelling software

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Up until recently I had access to Solidworks 3D CAD software. I would like to carry on with solid modelling software but cannot justify the cost the cost of a licence.

I've searched the forum for recommendations, seems there are a few free packages that might work for me.

One question I cannot find an answer to is will any of the free packages open Solidworks files, ideally allowing me to edit the files? Probably too much to hope for but worth an ask.

I have a free Solidworks file viewer, this allows me to interrogate the model but not change it.

John

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Solid Edge Community Edition appears to be able to import SolidWorks parts and assemblies:

Worth a try but the conversion may not be trouble free. Solid Edge has a 'Reverse Engineering' workbench that contains a bunch of tools for fixing flaws in files imported from other CAD tools. Never tried it but I suspect SE will load a high percentage OK, but then the model has to be checked to confirm all is well and may have to be patched.

Other points.

• SE is free, but my licence is counting down from about 900 days. I'm not 100% certain I will be allowed to renew on the same terms when the time comes. (All the big CAD packages have restrictions of some sort.)
• SE does all I want and more, including assemblies of assemblies, but I've not found it easy to learn. Partly because from habit I want it to work just like FreeCAD or Fusion360 and it doesn't, partly because SE is somewhat inconsistent. A major part of the problem is the package has two modes, with similar but not identical commands, and two very different approached. In Ordered Mode SE works in the same way as FreeCAD & F360 (and probably SolidWorks) by building a stack of commands that can be back-edited. Moving a hole means finding the sketch that created the hole yonks ago, altering it, and hopefully the change will ripple through the model without breaking anything. Synchronous Mode is different, mostly intuitive, but can be quite confusing. For example, holes can be moved at any time because there is no history but synchronous operations can fail mysteriously because the internal structure has been compromised. The two modes can be mixed. I suspect it would be necessary to become fluent in SE before attempting to import SW, and SE doesn't work in the same way SW.

Need must when the devil drives. SE has a good chance of doing what you need.

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

F360 free won't do it. Alibre does but just as a solid part that can be altered but you can't access the individual sketches that made up the part and just alter say a diameter or distance.

[ChrisLHParticipant @chrislh]

John,

You have a PM.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

You can import Solidworks parts files (.SLDPRT) into Onshape free version and they are editable. Not sure about assemblies or sketches though.

Try Onshape Free I think it was developed by ex Solidworks people and uses a similar interface.

Russell

[Michael CallaghanParticipant @michaelcallaghan68621]

I don’t know if it helps, but you can get an educational copy of solidworks (a genuine download) for £80pa . It was £20pa last year. I have no idea why the increase. I have been using solidworks for years and now find other programs hard to get on with.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 16/08/2022 16:15:45:

 

• SE is free, but my licence is counting down from about 900 days. I'm not 100% certain I will be allowed to renew on the same terms when the time comes. (All the big CAD packages have restrictions of some sort.)

Dave

I started off on Solid Edge 2020 and have already upgraded once to SE 2022 last November.

Siemens normally updates it's CAD software each year and (so far) have kept the Community Edition in lockstep with the commercial license. I skipped SE-CE 2021 but will hopefully be upgrading to SE-CE 2023 this November.

My expectation is that my license will be renewed for another three+ years at that time.

Having been involved in the commercial support of 'soft' products for many years, I know that software companies are always cautious about the length od time they will "formally" support different versions of software. Solid Edge has quite a few features that can be intergrated with various Microsoft products (should you wish to do so) and obviously Siemens will be conscious of changes that MS are making in their products & support over time.

Whilst this shouldn't effect most folk here, it may well mean that SE will only be 'officially' supported on Win 11 eventually. This doesn't mean it will not continue to run on Win 10 but would be more an indication that Siemens support staff will not be supporting commercial clients on Win 10 forever. I've run SE on both Win 10 & Win 11 – both 'Home' editions – whilst officially SE is only supported on 'Professional' Win versions.

I'll report further in November when I've upgraded to SE 2023 (assuming it's offered) and as my (old) Win 10 laptop is still limping along, I'm going to try upgrading that first, before I try it on my new Win 11 box.

With regard to another point that Dave made – most SE users here really only need to learn and use 'Synchonous' mode in my view. For the majority of the CAD work folk here will probably undertake, it's by far the best & easiest option. I don't use 'Ordered' at all and (coming from TurboCAD 2D) I didn't really need any further confusion when learning a new CAD. Ordered has it's uses in some modelling work (e.g. lofts) but Synchorous will do all of the things I'm probably ever going to need.

This short YouTube explains the main differences: Synchronous versus Ordered in SE

Regards,

 

IanT

PS There was a Solid Edge CE user here (sorry don't remember who – it was a while ago) who used Solid Works (at work as a commercial user). He felt that moving to SE for his personal work was a good option and the transition hadn't been difficult for him.

Edited By IanT on 17/08/2022 11:36:34

[Dave Smith 14Participant @davesmith14]

I am not an expert on SE (I use Catia V5), only using it occasionally. However I have just imported a Solid Works file straight in the SE. However it appears to be a dumb solid so no history

[IanTParticipant @iant]

DaveS,

I believe Solid Edge can edit your imported geometry (even without the design history) by using Synchronous Technology – it's another good reason to learn/use Synchronous (rather than Ordered) mode. Synchronous should allow you to drive the models 3D dimensions and work from any existing faces. You will not be able to 'step back' further than the imported model but I believe you should be able to change/modify it.

Siemens also provides batch migration tools for this work (a quick Google will give more detail) but I don't know if they are in the CE version – I've never needed them. But if John M has a lot of SW files to migrate, it would be worth checking for their presence…

Regards,

IanT

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by IanT on 17/08/2022 16:20:17:

DaveS,

I believe Solid Edge can edit your imported geometry (even without the design history) by using Synchronous Technology – it's another good reason to learn/use Synchronous (rather than Ordered) mode. Synchronous should allow you to drive the models 3D dimensions and work from any existing faces. You will not be able to 'step back' further than the imported model but I believe you should be able to change/modify it.

Siemens also provides batch migration tools for this work (a quick Google will give more detail) but I don't know if they are in the CE version – I've never needed them. But if John M has a lot of SW files to migrate, it would be worth checking for their presence…

Regards,

IanT

I agree, and although I hold by what I said about SE potentially being difficult to learn, I should have added it's my favourite 3D CAD tool.

• I like and use FreeCAD because it's fully free and it runs on Linux. However, best for single parts and it's in development. Although I find it stable, others say it crashes and I believe them!
• For assemblies, i.e models containing multiple parts with fixed, rotating and sliding joints, I was happy with Fusion 360 for a long time. Same basic approach as FreeCAD but much slicker and more complete. Also in development but supported by a professional team who've studied what makes earlier CAD software awkward to use. I picked it up quickly partly because I was used to FreeCAD's ways of working, and because the commands are logical and consistent. Two big problems for me: F360 is in the cloud, and after a while AutoCAD restricted certain facilities as a way of encouraging freeloaders to cough up. Restricting the maximum number of open files to 10 isn't a show-stopper, but it annoys me. I don't do enough CAD to justify paying much for it.
• Mainly thanks to Ian, I tried Solid Edge and was pleased by what I found. Not significantly restricted, long free licence, allows multiple open files, and not a cloud product that has to phone home. However it's older than F360 and you can see the growth rings! I found it harder to learn than F360, but Synchronous Mode is super, and I very much like the way SE handles the development of assemblies. For example, an axle can be modelled as a part, then used to locate and create a bearing part that fits it, and then a wheel-hub that fits the bearing and so on. Much simpler than defining parts separately and hoping the dimensions are OK and will fit together in an assembly later. I've switched from F360 to SE because SE is better match to my needs and I like it, but it's not been easy! I'm still working on it…

Dave

[Dave Smith 14Participant @davesmith14]

Ian

I think we are talking at cross purposes. Yes you can edit the imported solid works file same as you can edit a step file, it does not matter what mode it is in. But you cannot edit it by the history. So for instance you want to remove a hole. With history you just delete it. As a dumb solid you will have to fill it in. Not normally a problem, but it gets more complex where compound surfaces are involved.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Off original topic but would someone like to give a 4 line explanation of the difference between Synchronous and Ordered. I've not heard of them before perhaps as I'm not much of a CAD user..

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 17/08/2022 17:40:36:.

• Mainly thanks to Ian, I tried Solid Edge and was pleased by what I found. Not significantly restricted, long free licence, allows multiple open files, and not a cloud product that has to phone home. However it's older than F360 and you can see the growth rings! I found it harder to learn than F360, but Synchronous Mode is super, and I very much like the way SE handles the development of assemblies. For example, an axle can be modelled as a part, then used to locate and create a bearing part that fits it, and then a wheel-hub that fits the bearing and so on. Much simpler than defining parts separately and hoping the dimensions are OK and will fit together in an assembly later. I've switched from F360 to SE because SE is better match to my needs and I like it, but it's not been easy! I'm still working on it…

 

F360(I suspect any worthwhile CAD) does this too. Although I'd start with the wheel and build inwards. This uses a base sketch to position(wheel base, track width and height above the ground) the centres of the wheel bores in relation to important features like the bulkhead and rear crossmember and is built from there:

 

Edited By Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 17/08/2022 20:21:11

[lee websterParticipant @leewebster72680]

John,

Solidworks seem to be offering the software at $99 per year or $9.99 per month. Perhaps you could sign up for a months worth and export all your files in a format suitable for whatever CAD programme you settle on.

Not knowing what you need I can only suggest you have a look.

Lee

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Posted by Bazyle on 17/08/2022 20:19:42:

Off original topic but would someone like to give a 4 line explanation of the difference between Synchronous and Ordered. I've not heard of them before perhaps as I'm not much of a CAD user..

I gave a link earlier to this short (3.5 minute) YouTube Bazyle – I think it explains the differences fairly simply. If you search for them, there are other, more detailed explanations from Siemens available too.

Synchronous vs Ordered Mode in SE

I agree with Dave-S14 but I believe the SW > SE migration tools that I also mentioned will import the full part history. So that will be the better route to use if the CE version of Solid Edge has access to it.

Regards,

IanT

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

Posted by Bazyle on 17/08/2022 20:19:42:

Off original topic but would someone like to give a 4 line explanation of the difference between Synchronous and Ordered. I've not heard of them before perhaps as I'm not much of a CAD user..

I watched the video "Synchronous vs Ordered Mode in SE", and it appears that in synchronous mode, any sketches that are used do not remain as part of the model (I think in actuallity, the sketches are there mathematically, but hidden from view).

When I am modeling in Solidworks, I always hide the previously used sketches from view, else they clutter up the drawing, and I guess everyone does this.

It should be noted that with each added extrusion/boss, etc., SW gives the option of combining the new extrusion into the existing part, or keeping the new extrusion as as separate entity. This option can be handy when you don't want the new extrusion controlled by the other part geometries.

I have read that some like the synchronous mode, but I can say from experience that for the engines I model, using synchronous mode would be a disaster, since I frequently go back and modify existing complex sketches.

As far as SE being difficult to learn, from watching a few tutorial videos on SE, it seems to be almost exactly like Solidworks, with perhaps different graphics on the tool buttons.

So I guess I don't see the difficulty in learning SE, and I could use it right out of the box I think.

Just a few thoughts.

.

Edited By PatJ on 18/08/2022 02:59:47

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Hi Pat,

Yes, the 'used' sketches are still there and can be re-opened if required.

I will admit that I still don't fully understand all the implications of Synchronous use but it was the default mode and I decided to just accept that and not worry too much about Ordered. I was moving from a 2D tool and I found the 'learning' was in two areas – you need to learn the drawing tools provided but more importantly was the need to approach things from a very different perspective. I 'draw' diferently these days – it's not just knowing which key or icon to press.

With regards to 'sketches' – this short blog may be of interest…

Fallout of Sketch Based Features

Regards,

IanT

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

Ian-

Thanks for the link to the article.

I see what he is saying about the dependency on the sketches, and how that can sometimes cause the model to fail, but I will have to study the synchronous method more to figure out how it would work with a complex model.

The examples for the synchronous method all seem to be somewhat simplistic.

I have noticed that significant changes to an underlying sketch can really cause problems with a 3D model, to the point where sometimes I have to start the model over again with a different initial sketch.

I will keep studying synchronous mode, and see if I can get my head wrapped around it.

The ordered method is like a pyramid of stacked dominoes.

Everything is good as long as you don't disturb the base dominoes too much, but too many changes will bring it all crashing down.

Pat J

 

 

Edited By PatJ on 18/08/2022 16:33:04

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

Specifically the article mentions deleting a underlying sketch, which can cause severe problems, and I have to agree, this should not cause a problem, but the program can't seem to knit the pieces back together in ordered mode when you delete an underlying sketch, or make to much of a change to it.

Edited By PatJ on 18/08/2022 16:33:54

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

I am having to learn new terms, such as "prismatic parts".

I guess this is a part that has facets, like a diamond, and not necessarily non-linear curves surfaces and such.

.

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

"Live section" is another new term.

I can see somewhat what the benefits of getting away from the traditional sketch-based model would be, but to use live sections and sychronous mode required using a completely different paradigm.

Sort of like rearranging all of the controls in a 747 cockpit, so you can fly the plane better.

But first you must have a deep and fundamental understanding of the new paradigm.

It took me about a year to learn sketch-based 3D modeling, and I basically had to learn how to visually section a 3D object in my head, and find the best starting point for an initial sketch, as well as determining a rational approach to subsequent sketches to be added to the model.

How long would it take me to get fluent with synchronous mode?

Who knows. One would have to use it constantly for a long period of time (for me at least), and discover all the advantages, and how it all interacts with the model.

Being able to push-pull a piece of the model without affecting other parts is definitely an advantage, but doing this in a predictable, consistent and reliable fashion may take a bit of time.

It is sort of like me trying to drive in the UK.

Could I drive in the UK? Yes, I could.

Could I drive safely in the UK? No, I could not.

Would I attempt to drive in the UK? No, definitely not.

Would I attempt to learn synchronous mode? No, not at this point. I have gone to far to change horses in mid-stream.

If I were just learning 3D modeling, would I use synchronous mode?

Perhaps, but while I can see what they are trying to achieve with synchronous mode, I don't have a comprehensive feel for what it will do to the model overall, especially a somewhat complex model, such as an example like the Frisco Standard cylinder head below.

 

Edited By PatJ on 18/08/2022 17:19:14

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by PatJ on 18/08/2022 02:58:02:

Posted by Bazyle on 17/08/2022 20:19:42:

Off original topic but would someone like to give a 4 line explanation of the difference between Synchronous and Ordered. I've not heard of them before perhaps as I'm not much of a CAD user..

…

I have read that some like the synchronous mode, but I can say from experience that for the engines I model, using synchronous mode would be a disaster, since I frequently go back and modify existing complex sketches.

…

Yes, might be.

I followed Ian's excellent advice and went straight into learning SE's synchronous mode. Most of the time it works naturally allowing features to selected and manipulated without worrying about the original sketches, which soon become redundant. You concentrate on the object rather than how it was created. A downside is that the original sketches are invalidated by synchronous changes so SE demotes and then removes them. If a synchronous mistake can't be reversed with UnDo, it has to be eradicated by moving forward, not by going back through the timeline and repairing bottom up. Fortunately, usually easy to correct by moving forward, but synchronous can be blocked by invisible dependencies, which SE isn't good at identifying. Then it gets awkward.

SE's Ordered Mode retains the history and builds models conventionally bottom up as expected. I like this way of working except having to work out exactly which old sketches in a long history need to be modified, which can be painful.

SE models can be built with both modes in combination. The complications are: synchronous loveliness isn't available in ordered mode; history isn't available to synchronous commands; and similar commands in the two modes, like extrude, aren't identical – more learning.

Productivity-wise, I think Fusion's commands are more coherent and direct than Solid Edge, but Synchronous mode saves a lot of time unless the builder does something needing Ordered Mode. Gut feel, although it's a close run thing, in my hands SE would get to the goal faster than Fusion most of the time. Can't comment on SolidWorks – zero experience!

For what it's worth, the more I familiar I get with synchronous the less need I've found for history.  But I think Pat's concern is valid.

To answer Bazyles question:

To model a cube with a hole in it in Ordered Mode, one sketches a 2D square, positions a circle of the right diameter in the right place and then extrudes the sketch to create a cube with a hole in it. Synchronous is exactly the same.

• to change the position of the hole in Ordered Mode, the sketch is reopened and the circle moved within the square in 2D. When the sketch is closed, the extrude is reapplied automatically and the cube reappears with a repositioned hole. The 2D sketch defines the result and remains important.
• to change the position of the hole in Synchronous Mode, the hole is selected on the 3D cube by clicking and pulling it directly into the new position. The diameter of the hole can be changed in the same way, as can the cube itself – faces can be pulled to make a cuboid. Holes can be deleted too. In synchronous mode the original 2D sketch becomes irrelevant, it was just a way to get started.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 18/08/2022 18:17:46

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

Don't forget that in synchronous mode, SE gives you the "steering wheel" for manipulating the model. How you can wrap up so much power and intricacy in what looks like quite a simple item baffles me – and I swear that it does something slightly different every time I use it! But it's the kind of thing that, once mastered, gives you access to very quick and accurate model manipulation. One day, I'll be able to use it…

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

I think my original statement was incorrect.

You can go back and modify things using synchronous mode, but in a different way (as i understand it).

Dave's description of how synchronous mode works is very helpful.

Using synchrounous mode would launch me into a big sea of unknowns.

In the end, you are modifying the same model database, but in a different way, with some different effects on the overall 3D model.

I guess it is a matter of using the method that is most effient for the user.

I am a rather methodical person, and I plod along with 3D modeling like a turtle, trying to think ahead about what the best path to a complete 3D model will be.

As far as remembering which sketch did what, I have gotten into the habit of doing a screen capture after each step in the creation of a 3D model.

It just takes a second to copy/paste these screen shots into a photoshop program, but it leaves a nice visual papertrail as to how the model came together.

I also use the screencaps in 3D tutorials that I make, to show the progress of steps to create a 3D model.

I have found the screencaps to be extremely useful when I need to modify a model, and when I can't quite remember all the steps I took. My 3D models tend to be complex, and after a few months, I can't recall how I made them.

In Solidworks, you can hover over the display list, and it will highlight the shape and/or associated sketch on the model.  This is another way to quickly review how the model came together.

.

 

Edited By PatJ on 18/08/2022 19:29:40

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