3D-CAD Package Shootout – Cotton Reel Example

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Thought I would add some cotton just for fun

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Further to Jason's replay just above, when I do a complicated (relative term) design, I tend to rename individual sketches to help me keep track of the process. It's no good me trying to remember the order of service, memories fade over time. Likewise, in Atom, if you run the mouse pointer over the hierarchical tree in the left hand pane, it highlights the sketched/extruded part as you go. I don't know whether this function is available in other packages, though.

John

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Pleased I could help Duncan – I'm still learning all this clever new stuff myself. I do find it becomes a little easier with use though, as you slowly get used to things. Had a small "Ah-Ha" moment last week, when I twigged how to do something that had previously puzzled me…

Jason – I think that would be true in Solid Edge if using 'Ordered' mode – but in 'Synchronous' mode you have more ability to manipulate design features without stepping back in history. Also as a 2D sketch is consumed (e.g. extruded) it ceases to be part of the active model because you can now work on the new faces/planes directly.

You do have a list of 'features' (the actions used to build your part) and you can select them to look at/modify the design 'intent' for that feature – e.g. what SE assumes you want it's relationships to be – but the initial sketch used to design the feature becomes "used" . You can still re-open a 'used' sketch if you need to, maybe to find a previous [consumed] reference point for instance – but I rarely do so.

I posted a video link recently that explains the main differences between Synchronous & Ordered modes much better than I can (a picture being worth a thousand words etc) and for anyone who is curious, here it is again…

(1) Synchronous vs Ordered Modes in Solid Edge – YouTube

Regards,

IanT

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

Solidworks will highlight a particular feature when you hover over the name.

Right click on the folder and you can edit the 3D object, ie: extend or shorten an extrusion a bit.

Right clicking on the sub-folder, which is the sketch file, brings up the 2D sketch, which can also be modified.

You can drag a feature up and down on the tree (sometimes).

This can be helpful if you have a cut (a hole), and then you extrude a shape through your hole.

Drag the hole down below the new shape, and the hole is maintained through the new shape (unfortunately this seldom works).

Sketches can be turned on and off using the VIEW pulldown menu.

I always turn off sketches, since I don't want to see sketches that I have already created.

I tend to create numerous new planes and axis when creating a model, and I hide those as I go, else there are too many trees to be able to see the forest.

I create models as if they are going to be used to create a 2D drawing, sometimes leaving out fillets so as not to clutter the 2D drawings.

To create a pattern from a model, it has to include draft angle on the appropriate surfaces, as well as machining allowances added, and core prints if required. I often add the fillets at this stage.

Castings made with sharp edges/joints tend to crack.

I suppress the view of the components that are used to create patterns, if I am trying to make 2D drawings.

I unsupress the pattern features when I want to 3D printing a pattern.

I use the 3D printer program to add in the shrinkage allowance, which is close to a 1.025 multiplier (if I remember correctly) factor.

 

.

Edited By PatJ on 16/04/2022 10:18:56

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by IanT on 16/04/2022 10:11:35:…

I posted a video link recently that explains the main differences between Synchronous & Ordered modes much better than I can (a picture being worth a thousand words etc) and for anyone who is curious, here it is again…

(1) Synchronous vs Ordered Modes in Solid Edge – YouTube

Regards,

IanT

For a fuller comparison between CAD approaches, I found this website comparing Parametric vs Direct vs synchronous CAD Modelling Techniques useful.

Be nice if Autodesk Inventor, FreeCAD, Fusion360, Onshape, and Solidworks supported Synchronous Mode, but not having it isn't a showstopper. Although working without sketches and history improves productivity in some cases, it's not appropriate for all tasks, especially when models become complicated. Solid Edge is a Hybrid: optimistically it gives the designer the best of both worlds, though a pessimist might whinge it increases the software's complexity!

So far, Solid Edge is the only CAD package mentioned in this thread that does Hybrid CAD. In contrast, Fusion, FreeCAD and Alibre all have similar history panels, in which later features depend on earlier sketches and the operations applied to them. Earlier sketches can be changed, but the designer has to be careful not to create an illegal geometry when the computer applies later history to it, for example don't make the cotton-reel's outer diameter smaller than the hole drilled through it!

Dave

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 16/04/2022 11:26:19:

Solid Edge is a Hybrid: optimistically it gives the designer the best of both worlds, though a pessimist might whinge it increases the software's complexity!

Dave, coming from (non parametric) TurboCAD all I can really say is that with SE it's wonderful having any small change automatically update across all related assemblies and drawings. I had assumed that "parametric" was just a term to describe any CAD system that offered this feature.

I have found using Solid Edge easier than the other systems I tried originally but I wasn't aware of the technical differences between them at the time. I didn't think the 'synchronous' aspect of Solid Edge was unique to it either but it seems it might be.

Fortunately, whatever complexity exists under the bonnet of SE – it's not apparent to the user and I've found both versions of SE (2020 & 2022) that I've used so far very stable.

Regards,

IanT

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by IanT on 16/04/2022 12:26:45:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 16/04/2022 11:26:19:

Solid Edge is a Hybrid: optimistically it gives the designer the best of both worlds, though a pessimist might whinge it increases the software's complexity!

Dave, coming from (non parametric) TurboCAD all I can really say is that with SE it's wonderful having any small change automatically update across all related assemblies and drawings.

…

Fortunately, whatever complexity exists under the bonnet of SE – it's not apparent to the user and I've found both versions of SE (2020 & 2022) that I've used so far very stable.

I was hoping someone would show how to do the cotton-reel with TurboCAD. Unfair to criticise because I've not used it myself, but from what I've seen it looks very much like 2D-CAD with 3D bolted on. As 2D and 3D design require different mind-sets, I suspect TurboCAD is a difficult to learn combination. Solid Edge is quite different, and its history-less feature is appealing, especially as it works with sketches and history as well. But to get the best out of Solid Edge the designer has to learn sketches too, and they work much like Alibre and similar.

Of the two packages I've used in anger:

• FreeCAD is most likely to crash, though it's been much better in my experience since v0.18. Version 0.19.3 is good, plus the automatic recovery feature works well – you only lose up to the last successful checkpoint, not everything! FreeCAD stability isn't a problem for me, though it was very annoying in the some early versions. I still save regularly!
• Though Fusion 360 is more solid than FreeCAD, I have crashed it! Running off the cloud is a mixed stability benefit. First, an F360 session is likely to begin with a download requiring a restart. Second, the package requires a working internet connection to Autodesk's back-end service. The license timing out or misfiring is an occasional nuisance. I've lost data a few times due to network and server trouble, but recovery is generally good, using either the cloud or local copy, whichever is in best nick. Again, stability hasn't been a problem for me.

As a result of this thread, for different reasons, I've decided to give MOI and Solid Edge a try. Gawd knows when I'll find the time!

One reason FreeCAD scores high in my camp is it runs on Linux as well as Apple and Windows. As an ex-UNIX programmer, Linux has strong appeal to me, plus it's strong on security and privacy. I do Windows as well, but Linux is my first choice – provided the software I want to use will run on it.

Though ease of use is important, it's not the only reason for choosing software: Linux vs Windows vs Apple is a consideration, as is local vs Cloud, security, cost, the type of licence and the Terms and Conditions.

Dave

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Dave.

MoI will run unde Wine if that is of any help. You may have to fiddle a little bit, but it sounds as if you could get around that.

Martin.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

You can use Fusion without the history. But doing so means you can't go back and alter features or processes, and that's one of the things that makes CAD such a useful engineering design tool so I don't see why you would want to

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Is it possible to move models done with Alibre Atom, and so saved as .PRT into SE 3D, which would want .par files? If so how?

I remembered that I did some stuff when Alibre was on offer a bit back

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You might need to export the part as a STEP file but would need an active Atom to do that.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Well that's snookered that then, but thanks anyway

[GordonHParticipant @gordonh]

Duncan,

You may be able to open the files in Solid Edge. Click the Open button followed by the drop down button in the "All Solid Edge documents" window. The tenth item in the drop down is file type *.prt which may be what you need.

Gordon

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Alibre usually saves as *.ad_prt

[GordonHParticipant @gordonh]

No harm in trying, otherwise it looks like back to the (metaphorical) drawing board.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

That file type is for Siemens NX (their other CAD system) so I don't think it will help.

I assume the problem is that a six month Alibre trial has finished, so you can't re-open the old files and export them Duncan?

Regards,

IanT

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

The Alibre file format is an extension of STEP. I'm told, but have not seen that some CAD systems will open Alibre files if extension is changed to STEP or STP (attempt at your own risk).

The extended trial for Atom3D was done using special licence keys – one side effect is that the software just stops working after the trial period – the usual free trial will offer 'viewer' mode after trial expiration.

You can work around around that as detailed in this Help article

If you have just a few files from Atom3D, ask nicely and maybe somebody with a licence, or running a current trial would open your files and export them.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Yes,as long as it is just a few files, I can do that for you. All you have to do is PM me your email address and I'll respond with mine. Send me a file and I'll export it into a number of different formats and send them back. If any work for you, I can do the rest. Got no project on the go at the moment, so I'd welcome a bit mouse bashing!

John

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Jason is correct, the files are AD_PRT, I've tried Gordon's suggestion, no go. I've hopefully taken up John's kind offer, fine fellows Model Engineers

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

A huge thank you to John Hinkley, who has converted my Alibre models into more formats than you can imagine (SAT, STP, STL, DXF and DWG), all of which work in SE.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

So one of the files John converted for me was a loco wheel. I've just modelled that axle and then tried to make an assembly. Twit that I am I have the wheel axis along the x and the axle axis along the y, so it won't work. It must be possible to swap x and y in the axle? Solid Edge guru needed..

I'm almost tempted to buy Alibre as there was a step by step manual with it which I found very good

[GordonHParticipant @gordonh]

The assembly process should override your part orientations.

Gordon

Spelling correction 

Edited By GordonH on 18/04/2022 23:13:56

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Duncan,

Not sure exactly the problem but your relates should over-ride the part orientation.

In Assembly – try experimenting with the assembly relationships – Mate, Planer Align & Axial Align. You can assemble most things with just these three commands. If it's not working the way you think it should do, then try the 'Flip' option to swop the relationship.

Assembly needs a little practice but is one of those things that will suddenly click (at least it did for me). Still working on my part 'dragging' though….

Regards,

IanT

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

After 3 hours of cursing I managed to work out how to align the parts, dead easy once you've twigged. I now have 2 wheels complete with crankpins on an axle (could have made them out of metal in this time!), but the crankpins are in line. I need to rotate one wheel/crankpin assembly about the x axis of the wheel. I think it might be to do with the steering wheel thing that keeps popping up, but I can't get it to align along the x. Anyone got any good ideas. I've tried and failed with Google. This is Solid Edge

And while I'm on, I tried to copy a 2D drawing out of nanoCad into SE so I could rotate the profile, did Copy with Base Point, which usually puts it on the clipboard, but failed to paste it into SE

[AlanParticipant @alan14594]

Its taken a bit of time…But here is my attempt…

This is a FreeCAD screenshot

And this is part of a 3D print…

Not a very good print… as I'm still trying to learn how to work the printer!!

The FreeCAD drawing could also be improved… but I don't think its too bad for a first attempt!

Alan

[Author]

Posts