2D and 3D Cad Software Recommendations

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Brian,

I don't do social media of any sort and, like you, dislike the idea of storing my files in a cloud. For that reason, I use a mixture of 2D and 3D programs. As I said earlier in this thread, I use Alibre Atom 3D to do my initial design. This I then use to produce 2D DXF files for dimensioning in my preferred 2D QCAD – just because I'm quite well versed in it. (I'm too old and lazy to completely learn how to do it "properly" in Atom.) Then, if I want or need to produce some gcode for the router table, I use Fusion 360 in Manufacture mode. I do not, however, save those files online; rather I export them to my computer and store them there. Complicated, maybe, but it suits me.

John

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Thanx John. I try to warn my granchildren about the perils of social media but try putting an old head on young shoulder (probably cos my heads to big and heavy for such small frames)

QCAD pro must be a steal at £30. It seems to have a high reputation and if so I have no problem contributing to the cause

I just hate all the hype and dirty tricks in the CAD industry. Do they take us for fools?

Its the monetising bean counters who spoil things and dont recognise the value and contributions hobbyists can make in improving a product. If your a professional usually on the clock you dont have time to look into areas of a program that are problems let alone report them. Just work around curse and get the job out what ever.

Been there done that GTSATTSTPI

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Brian,

Ditch Windows in favour of Linux. I use Linux Mint, but there are others. Updates are then done at a time of your choosing.

Despite objections to the contrary, eg the Linux fanboys who think that Windows programs and Linux should never mix, I use an obsolete Win 32 bit CAD program quite successfully under Linux using an intermediatry program called Wine. There are other CAD programs, eg QCAD which have Linux versions hence no need for Wine.

Similar to others here, I will not and never will, succumb to using cloud based software. Neither will I use Facebook et al and as far as possible I try not to use Google, DuckDuckGo being my preferred search engine.

I realise Linux isn't for everyone, and it does mean putting in some effort to get to know it, but in reality once over the initial learning curve, it becomes second nature. I certainly have no regrets over leaving the malign clutches of Microsoft et al. And for what it's worth, my desktop is setup in a similar fashion to the old XP desktop. (Yes, Microsoft did have some reasonable ideas!)

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

I'm not worried about the data for my jobs being stored elsewhere. This is a virtual mockup for my hotrod project, and it's of no use to any one else:

that's down to the body and unusual combination of mechanical parts. However, if the data is for a customer that would be a very different decision.

Cloud storage is just one of the compromises low cost or free programs force on you. Some of the other limitations of the free version of Fusion 360 are much more likely to make me reluctantly pay the subscription: only 10 editable files at any one time, and not being able to edit inserted parts(although I do try not to use them)

I do agree with you on subscriptions. I would much rather pay a one-off fee to own the program. That makes you less susceptible to gouging due to change of ownership or the provider going out of business. My free Fusion needs renewing at the end of the week.

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

So John are we saying that Atom3d is a perp licence for £201 +vat and an annual ug of £70 (is this compulsory?

and it can expot dxf to a gcode generator for cnc (obviously there are other stages to get a full cnc file

but you export dxf to Qcad to make dims shop drgs

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

Atom 3D is a one off payment, if you want the upgrades you pay the annual fee, this is not compulsory, drawings can be exported to a cam programme to generate g code, Meshcam, for instance which is sold by the same people as Alibre. I am 99% sure it will also do three view workshop style drawings.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Brian,

Yes Atom3D (as with all Alibre software) is a perpetual licence. The charge for 12 months of updates is entirely optional. If you choose not to purchase updates, you remain on the version initially purchased. Of course radical changes to future versions of Windows might mean that an older version may not work on a new computer, but that is a risk with any software.

Atom3D can export DXF from its 2D Drawings workspace.

Atom3D is perfectly capable of dimensioning drawings, I can't comment on why a user might choose to do that step in another software package.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Brian,

To clarify – I bought the licence for Atom3D when it was on special offer and an extended trial period through MEW, a couple of years ago. I also pay the annual maintenance charge, but that's a personal choice. If you choose not to, you won't get upgrades after the first year. I export dxf files so that I can manipulate them in QCAD, specifically to change the layout and add dimensions. All that can be done by Atom, of course, but requires more learning time invested than I'm willing to commit. In order to produce gcode, I save the design in Atom to an STP file which is then opened in Fusion 360, the necessary procedures are carried out and the resulting post processing provides the gcode.

John

[IanTParticipant @iant]

As I've previously stated in this thread – I'm a very happy user of Solid Edge Community Edition – which is a free, lifetime licence that is installed and runs locally on my Win 10 laptop – with my designs and drawings all stored locally too. No Cloud, No Fees! So what's not to like??

The only 'technical' difference between SE-CE and the commercial versions is that native SE-CE files cannot be opened with commercial (paid-for) SE versions and vice versa. This really is not a problem in practice for any amateur CAD user such as myself.

Of course, the other difference is that the commercial equivalent to SE-CE (which I believe to be Solid Edge Foundation) currently costs £161 pm (paid annually and exc. VAT) for a single seat licence. So SE-CE users are getting something that would have cost them £2,318 per annum before Siemens offered Solid Edge 2020 CE a year or two ago.

I can understand that others have their own CAD preferences, because you naturally tend to stick with what you are most familiar with (I used TurboCAD for over 20 years) but I think that SE2020 Community is an such an amazing deal for Hobbyists and frankly I'm puzzled why more here are not grabbing it with both hands.

Regards,

IanT

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Indeed the choice is bewildering with so many competing claims. All CAD users will have their pet apps and brand loyalty. Its understandable given the time invested in becoming fluent.

I wonder if I tried to compile a comparator spreadsheet for hobbyists with inputs from you guys might help

Will put my simplistic thinking cap on

All will be fully disclosed here for member benefit of course.

From a noob view its very difficult to make these judgements from the web because of the smoke screen hype associated with many products. most wont tell you basics like import/export file types, 2d shop drgs o/p, hobby cost, etc

I can do the legwork but the info needs to come from you guys

Here's some providers

Acad Inventor

Fusion 360

Solidworks

Solid Edge

QCad

MoI

Creo

Atom3D

Tinkercad

Librecad

Turbocad

autosketch

Onshape

Freecad

apologies for omissions

I will post a suggested list of fields tomorrow

BTW I tried pasting a spreadsheet but it wont work here. I will have to turn it into a piccie

Edited By brian jones 11 on 05/09/2021 23:46:59

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

No smoke screens with Alible, click the "detailed" tab near the top of this page and you will get full detail of what each of there offerings can or cannot do by clicking each heading on the left.

Or the UK agent has it all here including costings

 

Edited By JasonB on 06/09/2021 07:17:17

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

One slight problem with a comparison based on what others report is that there are some reports in this thread that contain factual errors. I've noticed it with regard to the products that I know, so it probably also applies to others.

I doubt that the errors are deliberate – but they could be important to somebody making a choice.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I'm not a Sold Edge (or 3D CAD) expert Brian – but I'd be happy to contribute SE feature details for your comparison.

However, I do know there is at least one heavy duty SE user occasionally visits here, so I'm happy to move aside for superior knowledge if it steps forward.

Regards,

IanT

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Q

No smoke screens with Alible, click the "detailed" tab near the top of this page

uq

that s great JB a fine example of what we need

I will start my collection, my problem is how to display this, a large wide format spreadsheet would be best IMHO but cant upload this here. I noticed one suggestion for an XL file is to use dropbox which I believe is user friendly and the xls can be downloaded for personal viewing hoping this doesnt break any rules

Perhaps this needs to be done by pm

advice pls

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

cont

Here are some features I i put together pls add omissions/corrections . These will form the fields of the table

Pls highlight notable limitations which I will place at the end along with misc comments

Much of the boxes I will try to get website info. User personal exp will be highlighted in italics

Hope this will help to clear the mist

1. Product ver
2. Year started
3. Owner/parent
4. Home desktop
5. Local hd storage
6. File type export
7. File typ import
8. License
9. Subscription
10. Cloud
11. 2d shop drgs
12. Multi assy
13. CAM simulation
14. CAM 2.5axis
15. CAM 3axix
16. An industry std
17. Marketable skill
18. Hobby use
19. Learning curve
20. Tutorial quality
21. 3^rd party exts
22. Bugs
23. Crashes
24. Non manifold warning
25. 3D printing
26. CNC
27. Best for
28. Entry method 2D to 3D, 3D+2D
29. Sheet metal
30. Scripting
31. Parts families
32. Rendering

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Some of the proposed fields may either not be clear, or may be used differently by different companies (or both).

Several terms are very subjective, hence potentially difficult to get a fix on.

Don't let me put you off though….

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Which goes to show what a minefield it all is with competing product claims confusing the noob as to what he should invest 100hrs study in first

subjective inputs will be quoted in italics

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Excel file on Dropbox will work fine, you can put a link to it in a thread so no need for PMs

You may also want to define some of your terms, for example

-you have CNC listed but I expect what you really mean is CAM which takes the 3D model and produces the toolpaths that can then with the use of a post processor create the G-code that the CNC needs.

– What's the difference between a workshop drawing and one you could give to someone else or perhaps publish in a magazine or share via dropbox?

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Indeed JB

you have CNC listed but I expect what you really mean is CAM which takes the 3D model and produces the toolpaths that can then with the use of a post processor create the G-code that the CNC needs.

yes I mean CAM output but not having experience here it needs better definition from those who know

A shop drg is what i consider to be a conventional 2D dimensioned drg that can be used in a machine shop. I also assume it can produce different line style eg broken, dotted, dot dash etc and also fill in hatched areas for x sections, that kind of thing

Will update the list from further input

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Hi JB grinding my way thru Atom3d tutorials, so far very impressed, shows me how blind I was to real 3s design – ie blow out of the water. I can see how my spiral flute tap could be done in say 10mins max, while it took me 3 days struggle with totally inadequate SU – a junior toy by comparison Im afraid.

the free tutorials are thorough and professional (not like some yahoo making loadsa noise, looking for yt presence, likes and subscribers – what a waste of time they can be – specially if they are jinglish or silent "watch the mouse" type.

IMHO a product with professional tuts is a big big plus

It begs the question

Atom can be used to make proper shop drgs with manual placement of dims, why would you need to use an external 2D drafting app? It also imposes a certain discipline on you at ground level to ensure you make enclosed non intersecting shapes with unique lines and vertices.

Well Brian, I used TurboCAD D/L (2D) for over 20 years and it did have a 3D capability but frankly it was very hard to use. There was a 'Pro' version which was quite significantly more expensive but the base products were similar I believe. However, it worked OK for much of my 2D drawing for many years.

So why move to Solid Edge? Well, I started to draw/design more complex things (such as my Midland Compound engine) and it became increasingly difficult to do so using a (non-parametric) 2D product. Going back to correct errors or make changes becomes very time consuming. I also purchased a 3D Printer and whilst Open SCAD was easy to get into initially, it wasn't a solution for my drawing needs.

With Solid Edge, I can update a Part and everything in the Assemblies above changes. I can open the (2D) drawings I've made of that part or assembly and hit the 'Update' icon and all the drawings are updated automatically. It works for both my 3D Print & engineering needs.

AFAIK Atom uses what is called 'Ordered' drawing, which effectively means that you have to step back (to the point you wish to change) to make that change. Solid Edge does support 'Ordered' tends to use 'Synchronous' drawing. If something is changed, then do so and update no stepping back.

Comment from a member

Means changes in 3D model are reflected automatically onto 2D drg? I think

[IanTParticipant @iant]

"Means changes in 3D model are reflected automatically onto 2D drg? I think"

Yes Brian, that's what it means, it updates any effected 'drafts' (e.g. 2D drawings) at both Part & Assembly level – so as you make changes to your 3D components, your drawings stay in synch. Beats using TurboCAD hands down.

Regards,

IanT

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Ian – Thank you for the lead on Solid Edge. I downloaded it this morning and have spent the day re-orientating myself from years with Solidworks.

If this deal (free) is real. Then this must be the dogs wallongas of free 3Dcad.. Takes a bit of effort finding things at first, but very inclusive as you begin to get the hang of it. – Shame they do not offer the Cam package also.

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Well I remember Turbocad from the days when Acad was still DOS and difficult for the amateur to access, so it was an alternate cheap route into 2D drafting so you became competent enough at CAD operator level and could access ACAD commercially and get your skills up. (anyone remember Intergraph)

When Acad tried to do 3D modelling for platforms and I saw how painfully slow and tedious it all was – for me a complete turn off then along came Sketchup and suddenly it was 3D for numpties, instant visuals but ultimately a bad route to follow for eng work

I can see how desperate it would be if your 2D drafts didnt keep in step with your 3D manipulations

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Well siemens have CAM pro but are very coy about price. Perhaps if you find out , let us know

Is it possible to collect your parts designs and export into another CAM app like meshcam? $250-500, Mark4 $280?

I know zero about CAM but it seems to be a black art

Perhaps it needs a separate Topic heading of its own Monsignor

On the other hand for hobbyists there is something called MDI where G code instructions are input piecemeal by the machinist but I dont know JS

 

came across this

CNCCookbook 2018 CAD Survey Results [+Customer Satisfaction Awards]

BUT WARNING its a sales pitch but seems to offer some insight.  Seems a bit of snakeoil salesman here but maybe someone with knowledge might shed light.

Edited By brian jones 11 on 07/09/2021 18:47:55

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Posted by Rod Ashton on 07/09/2021 17:48:33:

Ian – Thank you for the lead on Solid Edge. I downloaded it this morning and have spent the day re-orientating myself from years with Solidworks.

If this deal (free) is real. Then this must be the dogs wallongas of free 3Dcad.. Takes a bit of effort finding things at first, but very inclusive as you begin to get the hang of it. – Shame they do not offer the Cam package also.

Hi Rod,

Well, the terms clearly state it's a free lifetime licence. It's probably not going to suit everyone here but frankly I'm delighted with Solid Edge CE (perhaps this shows?) and whilst I might not have thought of describing it as the Dog's "Wallongas" – it would have been something very similar I suspect.

Regards,

IanT

[Author]

Posts