2 piece collet ?

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2 piece collet ?

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  • #16653
    James fortin
    Participant
      @jamesfortin46829

      i need to make 2 more of these two piece collets but i would like to check with anyone else if there is an easy way to make these

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      #69143
      James fortin
      Participant
        @jamesfortin46829
        hi every one
         
        i need to make 2 more of these strange 2 piece collets and would be grate full of any advice. i think i could cut some bar dow the middle and super glue the 2 halves together so i can still keep it symmetrical, cutting after the machining is not an option.

        any help would be welcome .
         
        many thanks
         
        james
        #69144
        Les Jones 1
        Participant
          @lesjones1
          Hi James,
          I think I would be tempted to start with two pieces of rectangular bar clamped together in a 4 jaw chuck. That way it could be centred with a dial gauge mounted on the tool post. This would mean that the split would be exactly in the centre. After the threaded end and taper had been machined it would be cut off from the bar and the other end machined with it screwed into short length of bar that had been machined to to hold it. I would wait until you have had some more suggestions and pick the one you think is the best.
           
          Les.
          #69145
          Tony Pratt 1
          Participant
            @tonypratt1
            Conventional method is to machine first, then split, why can’t you do this, as you mention splitting before machining in your post, I’m not sure if super glue will cut the mustard? Also what machine tools have you?
            Tony
            #69147
            magpie
            Participant
              @magpie
              Hi James
              Sorry i have no idea how you would go about that job. However! the collets look like old style Sykes-Pickavant brake flairing collets, and a quick search on ebay, or a wanted ad on here or home-workshop site may just save you some unnecessary work.
              Cheers Derek
              P.S. send me a PM with dimensions and i may be able to help.
              #69148
              James fortin
              Participant
                @jamesfortin46829
                thanks for the suggestion Les, i don’t have a 4 jaw but its about time i bought one
                 
                tony, i have a 7×14 mini lathe and a warco minor mill, if i split it after wards when it is clamped up into the taper the inside diameter will not be circular it will be elliptical, ideally it needs to be circular as it is a toll for gripping brake pipes for flanging.
                 
                many thanks
                 
                james
                #69150
                James fortin
                Participant
                  @jamesfortin46829
                  hi derek it is a sykes pickavant brake flaring tool, an old one.
                   
                  the reason i need to make some new collets is because the spanner that fits over them is worn and the thread on the collet is also damaged, i thought if i machined some with standard metric threads it will be easier to replace next time.
                   
                  many thanks
                   
                  james
                  #69152
                  Pat
                  Participant
                    @pat
                    HI James
                     
                    You need a gap between the surfaces so that the object in the middle is gripped well. I would surface finish two bits of rectangular material and glue then with a bit of thin metal separating them. The thin metal shim is equal to the required gap for generating the clamping action. As you can mic up the parts you can easily find the required gap as this will have a circular outside diameter when held apart by an appropriate distance. Glue or use double sided tape if handling during centering is an issue for you.
                     
                    Turning the part from a single piece and slitting with a slitting saw is the best way if you have the equipment.
                     
                    The important thing would probably be keeping the bore concentric with the outer diameter and taper.
                     
                    Regards – Pat
                    #69153
                    Les Jones 1
                    Participant
                      @lesjones1
                      Hi James,
                      I think for this application it would be an advantage that the two halves did not meet. They would compress onto the pipe better. I think if you can find them on ebay it is not worth making them. I have just done search and found that Amazon sell the kit for £14.49
                      Les.
                      #69155
                      James fortin
                      Participant
                        @jamesfortin46829
                        thank you pat, i could do with a small gap but not much, as if the collet grips the entire circumference of the pipe then it cant compress it much, i have though about different types of collet but it needs to be able to split as the flared end is obviously bigger, i just fear that if it has a gap and its not circular then it will deform the pipe and then the flare wont be circular for operation 2 to be carried out ( doubling over the flare or bubbling it )
                         
                        many thanks
                         
                        james
                        #69156
                        magpie
                        Participant
                          @magpie
                          Hi James
                           
                          Check you message box Cheers Derek
                          #69162
                          Tony Pratt 1
                          Participant
                            @tonypratt1
                            James, splitting the collet after turning will not make anything elliptical! All diameters, threads and lengths will not change in the splitting process. The turned diameters will still be true cylinders. If you haven’t got a stub arbor and suitable slitting saw avaliable, careful use of a junior hacksaw should be ok to make the split.
                            Tony
                            #69176
                            Richard Parsons
                            Participant
                              @richardparsons61721

                              James Hi!

                              If you have not got a 4 Jaw do not worry. Find a bit of round bar bigger than the thing you want to make. Saw of twice the length you want plus a bit for the chuck. Now saw the bar down its length. This is to save you milling off too much. Mill a nice flat surface, but leave enough for you to machine to the finished size. Saw your ‘D’ section in half and stick the two halves together. Leave to set over night preferably under pressure in the vice.
                              Chuck in the 3 jaw and start to machine. I have one worry which is that Mini-lathes are often not very good at cutting tapers. On the Unimat SL I can make a taper by rotating the headstock. Do you have a compound slide? A further word do not remove the bar from the chuck until you have finished the job and go-easy with the depth of cut, leave it to cool frequently.

                              When you have made the thing warm it to melt the glue and split the two parts. If the collet does not grip the pipe properly just rub on a fine cut file and close the halves to geather a few thou.
                              By the waydoing this will prevent the thing going oval.

                              Good luck

                              Dick

                              Edited By Richard Parsons on 25/05/2011 11:02:04

                              #69179
                              Pat
                              Participant
                                @pat
                                Hi James
                                 
                                You need to replicate the existing collet. That is why I suggested that you measure the existing collet to see what the gap is. Do this by measuring the outside diameter of the lip on the front face with the two parts held together at right angles to the slit and let us call this measurement one. Measure the width across the lip of each part of the collet and call this measurement two. Subtract the measurement one from two and this will be the first approximation to the slit width. Repeat using a shim of any hard material equal in thickness to the gap you have just established. Check that holding the two parts of the collet together with the established shim pack in the gap that the collet is round by measuring at several points round the circumference – I suggest you use the maximum OD and check against the measurements from the step. If the collet is circular with the gap filled with the shims then this is the gap you need between the two rectangular bits of stock.
                                 
                                The gap is not that critical as it will be very difficult if not impossible to collapse the brake tube as these are a peculiar alloy which I think is called Bundy tubing. Even soft copper tube will be difficult to reduce in diameter by clamping in a collet with a gap that is excessive – after all the tube has to be very firmly gripped to permit the end to be flared and belled over.  Also the bore of a flaring collet should not be too smooth so that the pipe is gripped properly.
                                 
                                 
                                Hope this helps clear up why the gap is necessary and why it is not that critical.
                                 
                                Regards – Pat
                                 

                                Edited By Pat on 25/05/2011 11:46:38

                                #69223
                                James fortin
                                Participant
                                  @jamesfortin46829
                                  hi guys
                                   
                                  thank you for all the tips/ information. this time i will buy some second hand collets but now i know what to do next time the situation arises
                                   
                                  many thanks
                                   
                                  james
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