180v motor not working on new control board

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

Hi i have recently purchased a treadmill motor to upgrade my mini mill.I have had everything wired up correct yet when i turned the speed pot up the motor sounded awful and blew the fuse in the control board.I then decided to take it to a motor company and they said the motor says 180v and because i am running the board of a mains at 240v the motor cannot handle it and that is why it keeps blowing the fuse and sounds crap because the voltage is to high.Now that been said i followed a guys video on youtube in America who used the same board as me and correct me if i am wrong but do they not run on 110v,so why doesn't this motor work if it is between 110v and 240v ?

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

The US is 120V @ 60hz

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

My apologies here is a link to my control boar,will this be suitable for a 180v motor or do i need a 240v motor?

https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/specs/gsd5dcdrives.pdf

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Posted by Dave Halford on 14/01/2022 17:39:12:

The US is 120V @ 60hz

The OP link is for a DC board so is the OP,s motor AC or DC I'd go with DC

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Good job I'm a moderator – I think this post is wrong!

Are you expecting the the controller to work like a rheostat, i.e. by putting out a linear voltage between zero and 240V? A rheostat could be set to not exceed 180V, and the motor would be OK.

Sadly, the controller is unlikely to be a rheostat because they generate a lot of heat. Far more likely it's a Pulse Width Modulator. These alter the length of time power pulses on per second, not the voltage. Their output is either full on or full off and power out is an average created by altering the pulse width and number of pulses per second.

As pulses are always output at maximum volts, your 180V motor is being repeatedly kicked with 240V spikes, each of which is 50% more than the motor is rated for.

What controller and motor do you actually have? If the controller is designed for US 110/120V 60Hz as well, it's unlikely to appreciate 240V at 50Hz.

Not a good idea to copy foreign electrics off the internet without checking the details. Though similar, the differences sometimes matter enormously.

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 14/01/2022 19:01:44

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Andrew

The controller you linked to is for a dc motor.

Is yours an ac motor?

Can you provide details of the motor?

Stuart

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Hmmm, I've looked at the spec for the controller and it should be OK with 240Vac in and a 180Vdc motor.

I wonder if the Current Limit Pot is set too low? Might be chopping out the motor causing it to sound horrible, though I don't see why that would blow fuses.

Other thing I'm not sure about is the field and armature connections. Does the motor have field connections? If not, the field terminals should be left disconnected.

Jumper wrong? Maybe the unit is set for US volts, and 240Vac has to be selected.

Can you post some photos of the wiring and motor Andrew?

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 14/01/2022 18:39:53

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

Thank you all but unfortunately sillyoldduffer i am not familiar with electronics or there meanings to have an understanding of what you mean,my apologies for my ignorance.Stuart here is a picture of the motor casing.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

HP 2/ 4, the motor may be too big for the board or you need to use the correct motor terminals.

don't connect wires to 6& 7

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

The spec sheet for the driver is fine for the motor, as SOD said.

clear photos of all the wires would help.

What fuse have you fitted?

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

The board has a 10amp fuse and i fitted a 7amp to the plug.Im beginning g to think cheaper to buy a new bloody mill.

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

I've used a few of this type of control board and you usually have to set the input and output voltages. Normally done with a couple of jumper plugs. Obviously you want 240v in and 180vdc out. Have you done this?

Also some boards need specific value resistor's fitting to match your motor.

Lastly you may need to adjust the various potentiometers to get the motor running nicely

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

What sort of noise does it make?

Was the motor new or used. If the latter(or even the former), you may have a bad motor. If one or more armature windings have shorted, you would get the symptoms you have seen.

If you have a meter, try measuring the resistance (with the motor disconnected) between the input wires as you turn the motor slowly. You will see some variation, but if the resistance goes very low at one or more positions, you could have a bad motor.

Did the motor company test the motor, or just look at the label?

Edited By Peter Cook 6 on 14/01/2022 22:10:58

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

I haven't had the motor tested and i haven't set the input output voltages i am no good at electronics.I have tried a smaller motor and it works fine.Also the motor says 2.0/4.0 HP is it 2 or 4 ?

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Posted by Andrew Cressey on 15/01/2022 09:11:22:

I haven't had the motor tested and i haven't set the input output voltages i am no good at electronics.I have tried a smaller motor and it works fine.Also the motor says 2.0/4.0 HP is it 2 or 4 ?

Sorry to be blunt, but if your electrical/electronic knowledge is that bad, you should not be messing abiout.

There is a clue in your statement above regarding a smaller motor being ok………..

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Of the GSD5 variants, only the GSD5-240-10N4-V looks to have a Jumper, so probably not that. I can't see any indication in the manual that 120/240vac isn't automatic.

I fear Peter Cook is right, and the Treadmill motor is damaged with a shorted Armature winding. It explains the lumpy running and the fuse blowing and the controller working OK on another motor.

The Manual says:

Fusing

The GSD5 has an internal fuse in AC line 1 (P1-11), and this fuse is sized to open in the event of a shorted armature or if an armature line is shorted to earth ground.

Sorry, but my money is on the motor being faulty. Running rough and blowing fuses is highly suggestive of a shorted armature. Can be tested as Peter described by measuring the resistance of the motor whilst turning the axle. A £10 multimeter as sold by most car factors or Amazon will do the job.

However, can you post photographs of the wiring? Connections to the motor, controller terminals, etc. Be good to find from a photo that it's not a faulty motor.

The motor is 2HP. That isn't a fixed upper limit, it's how much power the motor can deliver without overheating. As it's OK to overload electric motors in short bursts, the 4HP is probably the maximum burst output. It's allowed for a few seconds provided the motor is allowed plenty of time to cool off after. When an electric motor is overloaded for too long the windings get hot enough to damage their insulation, and the motor shorts out. Once magic smoke emerges the windings are scrap. Usually cheaper to replace a small motor than have it rewound.

Dave

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

If that picture is no good let me know

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

My experience with a Clarke CL300 mini lathe is as follows. The motor is a permanent magnet type, rated at 180volts DC. This is supplied by a control board which is fed from the mains (230vac) and outputs a pulse width modulated, 180 volt DC signal to the motor, which is how the motor speed is controlled.

There have been numerous posts regarding this type of circuit since I joined this forum over 10 years ago and a lot of the problems seem to be because of the lack of basic electrical knowledge by the OP. Having recently had a motor fail on my own equipment, I am inclined to agree with the conclusions above, that the motor is at fault. Before replacing it, the OP should consider whether that model is up to the job. Checking the control board output would also help, but I don't know if the OP has either the skill or the equipment to do this.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

It's certain that if the motor can deliver up to 2 HP, or even 4 HP for short periods, it will take a lot more current than the original mini lathe controller is rated at, so not surprising the fuse is blowing!!

If you can access a 12V DC supply (e.g. a car battery), the motor would run happily on that albeit at much reduced speed if it is working properly. That would show up any problems such as shorted windings etc. But it might also short the battery so putting a fuse in series would be advisable.

If this is not something you have the confidence or knowledge to do, then don't fiddle!! Why buy a 2HP motor for a mini-lathe if you can't anticipate the speed controller might have problems?

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

John the control board is not from a mini lathe this topic is for a mill that has a new bigger control board and upgraded motor.

[Andrew CresseyParticipant @andrewcressey80402]

I have just connected the motor to a drill battery the motor runs but clunks as it goes round.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

2 hp on a mini mill sounds like overkill to me

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