16mm IDRIS

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Today I hope is soldering day for the boiler where this lot could become one…..
(Sorry for the rather poor image)

The Oiler will be soldered as one bit with easyflo 2 rather than the 2 stage setup Martin suggested.
The steam Union is also slightly modified from Martin's design.

I still need to drill the temporary holes in the boiler tube for the Water Gauge bushes.
I'm wondering if I want to put a radius on the inside of the bushes ?
Also wondering how I can accomplish this…….

I have made a Masterboard Hearth.
A Friends Large Propane torch will provide the energy and keep it all warm.
I now have a MAP Gas torch to run the solder.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The solder should flow enough to fill most of the gap to give a good joint but its always harder to completely fill it as the boiler dia gets smaller.

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

It's been a long and busy afternoon.

Soldered the end cap and Oiler with the MAP gas torch.

A Sand Blaster made clean up super easy.

A brush with the wire wool and we setup to do the 4 Boiler Bushes.

A MAP Gas torch, as I suspected may be hot enough but does not have the guts on it's own to solder the boiler.
Propane torch was required to provide the coverage for both Silver flow 24 and Easyflo 2 operations.
1 Bush is a bit untidy on the outside but has a nice filet on the inside.
The rest of the joints are really nice.

The final assembly after cleanup went well. Again the propane torch was called for.

I'm rather pleased. Its all gone very well.

You will note the lack of Water Gauge bushes. We ran out of time so will add them separately.

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

I have just had one of those "Oh Bother" Moments……

On the 1st page I asked about Tapping the Bushes.
They are all Part tapped so they are square and the Silver Soldering doesn't damage the thread crests.

So how do I tap the Steam dome bush ? ………..

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Probably should have soldered in the top bushes and then finished tapping them before soldering on the side bush with its pipe.

Either have to unsolder the side bush or have a go at making a 3/8" tap from silversteel with a hole drilled up the middle to clear the small pipe.

Also take it easy with the sand blaster, each use will take away a bit of the coppers thickness.

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Boiler is out of the pickle.
A rub with the scotch brite and fibre glass pencil and I'm very pleased.
The end caps and fire tube have an unbroken filet of solder all the way around.

1 Bush is not tidy on the outside. May pull that one out. I think I may have killed the flux…..
The other bushes are good. May add some easyflo2 to them when I warm it up again to make them tidier.

****** The Steam bush is going to have to come out *****
If this blog helps someone else not to make the same (Rather silly I admit) mistake it will be worth it !

Unsoldering seems like rather hard work It's in with easyflo24 and will probably wreck the end cap joints.
I was looking more towards a drill. The inside is smaller than the Bush So I can brake it off inside the boiler then file the outside of the Bush flush. The fishing will be fun……
If the hole is still central I can drill out the remaining bush. If not I can mill it out.

Agree with the Sand Blaster. It's rather aggressive and was used with due care.

It was all going so well, or so I thought……

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Alex … your post on 4th. May … asking how to radius the inside of the2 bushes for the water gauge … please use bronze not brass … my method for the task is a large half round file … I have no separate milling machine … as regards a hearth I have been using DRY house bricks for decades … I repeat, DRY bricks, some left intact and some chopped in half … a question for you … what sort of acid do you use for a pickle ? I always use 10% sulphuric acid and leave the items in it for 30 minutes … BLACKGATES sell concentrated acid … if you could find someone locally to share it with, then you do not end up with storing strong acids in the workshop.

If you end up having to fasten the water gauge bushes on after the boiler is complete, be careful drilling the copper as it will be very soft after silver soldering … a hollow sacrificial bolt may be a useful method to clamp the bush onto the boiler … when finished the bolt could be drilled through … hopefully the centre hole wil stop your drill wandering too much.

if you try to dismantle a silver soldered boiler it can be dangerous … it is very easy to have a piece of red-hot metal bouncing round the workshop !! for me I would not do it ever again ( don`t ask ) … also the copper tube can easily end up getting squashed out of shape.

Looking at your lubricator photo … the piping looks a bit different from mine … what is the long piece of piping on the right hand side please ? Can you still use the lathe to drill the small communicating hole into the cross-bar ? or have you already drilled it ?

martin

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Hi Martin.

The water gauge bushes are Bonze. The square blocks soldered to the Boiler. I made these Square from Round.
My current plan is to position them. Drill 2 mm into the copper and tap the hole M2.5.
1/2 cutting through cheap n nasty M2.5 screws, use those to attach the bushes to the boiler.
If they solder themselves in they are very easy to snap off inside the bush and drill through.
As for radiusing the Boiler joint, I think it would be worthwhile. If a file has to come out, a file it'll be.
I have a (Small) mill and boring head. That will probably work.
I also have the lathe. I may be able to hold the bushes in the Tool Holder better than I can on the mill and use the Boring head in the lathe head. Can I swing the boring head ? I'll tell you in an hour……

The gauge fittings I have made from Brass. If brass is unsuitable I will re make them.
Whilst I have lots of Brass and not a lot of Bronze, I have no wish to spoil the ship for a hapeth of Tar.

The Pickle I use is Citric Acid. 50g in 1 L of water.
Citric Acid is easily available from the local Chemist and reasonably low cost. (£0.50 for a packet)
I used the Sand Blaster cos it was there. Not for any other reason.

The Oiler is slightly redesigned using Copper Tube rather than drilled rod. The pipe on the R will be shortened to a suitable length. The hole in the bush (hanging down ) is Centred and needs to be drilled through. I have suitable long drills to do this. The hole for the oil needs to be drilled. Again I have suitable drills.

I have no intention of dis assembling the boiler (Un Soldering). I can see far to much potential for a huge number of issues.
What I have to do is re do both of the Side Bushes. (Steam and Check Valve)
The Steam bush cos I have not tapped the Dome Bush.
That puts the steam pipe in the way and is a rather silly mistake to make.
I'm simply not happy with the joint for the check valve. It may well be fine but I'd rather fix it now than later.

My plan is to leave the boiler for a few days. That should remove some of the ductility of the copper before I do anything more..

Thanks for your suggestions and advice.

Alex.

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

I have radiused the inside of the water gauge bushes on the lathe.
Boring head set at 25 mm radius. Well close enough to…. Very fine feed.
1st pass the bushes were not quite square in the tool holder. Fixed for the 2nd pass.
I have 1/2 mm flat on each side. of the bushes.

Thinking – may well trap some fine (0.2mm) copper wire under the bushes to provide some soldering clearance. A trick I have used before.

As for the boiler ends. I call them close to perfic. Your comments and thoughts would be welcome.

[Steven GreenhoughParticipant @stevengreenhough56335]

Nice work Alex.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Looking good, a couple of punch marks throw up enough of a burr to give a nice gap for the solder.

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Drilled the 2 bushes out tonight. Got em both pretty much spot on.

Fishing the end of the steam bush out was not easy. The pipe helped until I snapped it off….

New bushes made and if I can get the propane torch i'll solder them at the weekend.
Next edition of ME should be with us very soon

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Soldered the 2 new side bushes in today. Much happier with the joints this time.
Water gauge bushes tomorrow.
I note there is no angle on the drawing for the bottom bush. I guess it at least needs to clear the fire tube.
I just hope it clears the frames wherever I put it.

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Completed the Boiler Fittings today.
It's all reasonably good, not perfect…..
Need to clean it properly still. Another day !

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Comming along well, just watch those two top bushes have sealed all round looks like you could have done with a little more heat on them as the solder has not quite flowed out.

J

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Hi Jason.
Yer – looks a tad bad but they are soldered and soldered well with Silver Flow24.
I tried to fill the gap with EasyFlo2, that made a load of mess !
Fair bit of cleaning to do now….

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Alex … have you got somewhere locally to do a pressure test on the boiler … probably to 80 P.S.I. ( about 5. 5 bar ) assuming the safety valve is set to 40 P.S.I.

martin

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Hi Martin. We have the local Chelmsford Society of Model Engineers who I hope can help.
This is as you are aware my first attempt at a Boiler of any kind.
I'd like to know that it is safe to use before I apply any pressure to it.

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Alex … if it is tested by the Chelmsford society make sure they know it is a SMALL boiler … much smaller than the 3 bar – litre sizes they may be used to …. the size of this one is approximately 0. 53 bar – litres … i. e. pressure in bars times the volume in litres.

The test for small boilers is little more than a pressure test … for a LARGE boiler it is much more complex.

Unless all the rules have changed recently ???

If you take the boiler to them it may be wise to have already made lots of blanking plugs to fill up all the threaded holes … one of the holes will need an adaptor to match whatever pipework they use on their force pump.

hope all is O. K.

martin

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Alex … just a thought … if you are taking the boiler to Chelmsford M.E. then would you consider asking someone there for some sulphuric acid ??? If you look at M.E. page 427, down at the bottom, there is a picture of my boiler straight out of the pickle … no scraping or sand blasting needed, just a wipe over with a cloth … the brown-pink colour is a very, very clean surface … ideal for any extra silver soldering.

Safety precautions for handling acid are commonsense really … old clothes, rubber gloves, glasses or goggles, do not rush anything … always work with a large bucket of clean cold tap water handy … turn off the TV or mobile phone !!! I have used old ice cream tubs and old cups from the kitchen for many years … these happily hold the dilute acid with its item being pickled … get a plastic funnel to pour the acid back into the container … if you mix concentrated acid with water remember to add ACID TO WATER slowly .. never the other way round … if you are interested I am sure someone there would give you some ideas.

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

New copy of ME arrived today
Also got around to ordering the stuff from Roundhouse. Have to say they were very helpful.

Martin: Do we get a drawing for the Check Valve ?

I'm wondering why every bit of metal I seem to have is not quite right.
I have 4 thicknesses of brass sheet to do the side plates, everything but 0.059" (1.5mm)
I also have Brass 1/4 square and 1/2 square bar, but no 1/4 X 1/2.

More Metal ordered.

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Alex … the easiest way to find brass bar 1/4 x 1/ 2 inch would be from KENNIONS in Epping … the man on the phone is very helpful and their speed of posting is very fast …www.glrkennions.co.uk … possibly other suppliers would be able to help … as regards the check valve … well spotted … I have made many. many similar valves over the years and the last time I actually drew a picture must be about 20 years ago … the 2 important measurements are the lift of the ball off its seat and the diameter of the hole under the ball … the rest depends on the particular model.

I have a typical drawing from a long time ago … most of the sizes can be varied to suit the needs of any model … all I have to solve is how to attach it to this message … any ideas ?? cannot find a "paperclip" image or how to set up an "album" will go and ask God.

martin

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Hi Martin. Thanks for the details on Kennions. I'd not found them before.
After a dig I found 1/4 X 1/2" steel. Not quite so easy to machine as brass. Once it's painted no one will ever know
As I also have 1/4 X1/4 steel i'll probably use that for the other frame bars.
Soft Soldering steel I have done so no issues there either.

I have ordered a 2 KG pack of Brass Sheet offcuts and a 12" sheet of 1.5mm brass.
The offcuts packs are great. You get a lot of varying thicknesses and it's all usable sizes. it's rare to get anything with a dimension less than 100mm.

To attach drawings or pictures to the forum is a bit of a fiddle.
In the "Albums" Section, "Add New Photo's," create an album and add the drawing. I'm not sure which formats are allowed.
Once you have added the image to an album you can use the Camera icon in the forum to attach it to the forum.

I plan to use Metric threads for the Frames. I have metric taps an dies from M2 – M12. I also have loads of metric fastners I have no BA fastners and a set of 2,4,6,8 and 10 BA taps n dies. They are a bit cheap n nasty tbh.

Alex.

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Alex … thanks for your tip on "albums" … so far no success … nothing shows up as happening … no indication of what I am trying to send … will go and ask god … see if she knows … sledgehammer is twitching in hand … will let you know.

martin

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Martin, have a read of this how to

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