16mm IDRIS

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Forgive me if this has already been covered….
I have an 18" length of 2" Copper tube.
Whats the best way to cut it ?
A Pipe Cutter will curl the ends in.
I thought about a Parting tool in the lathe with the tube held in cones.Could get Messy!
I have a Band saw but the blade is fairly corse.
I'm not the best with a hacksaw.

Thanks

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Put a strip of tape or a cardboard collar around it and use it as a sawing guide. Use the finest toothed hacksaw blade you can get and go gently.

Neil

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Alex,

Just cut with saw and true up with a file…..it's not precision engineering you know

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Hacksaw it is then. Thanks

[Steven GreenhoughParticipant @stevengreenhough56335]

Alex, is this your first build? If so we’re going through similar things I think. ‘My’ boiler barrel is only 35mm tube. The method I used was to hacksaw it slightly oversize then true it up in the lathe. I turned a mdf plug first to go in the barrel end to stop the jaws deforming the tube.

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Hi Guys. Just had the latest ME drop through the door.
Martin makes Reference to http://www.brandbright.co.uk

Heading to the website, they are retiring and may or may not have the various required items available.
Can anyone suggest other suppliers of similar items ?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have a look through this list of suppliers

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

What items do you need that they supply?

Not having access to the latest ME makes it difficult to help……(I've no intention of taking out a subscription before anyone suggests……)

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Steven. This is my first Loco build and great fun it's been so far. I have made a couple of Stationary Engines. (Puddleduck and Dads n lads). This is quite ambitious for me.

I need:
Wheels, Axles, Cranks, Safety Valve are the items mentioned in this edition.
Wheels I can make if required. I have MS and Cast Iron. 1 1/2" flange. 1.323 tread.
Axles I can make – but have no drawing or details. Looks like they are 1/4 " dia from the Bush drawing.
Crank webs I can make.5/16 Throw – I guess that's enough info.
Safety Valve I'd rather not make.

Sounds a bit like I'm moaning, That's not my intention……..

Alex.

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Took the plunge and cut the Boiler tube tonight.
Drawing says 6.400"
My cut is at 6.470" less than 1/2mm to big. That'll do.

I mounted the tube on 2 cones on a bit of 8mm rod between 2 vices.
That way I could spin the tube to scribe square lines. I then did up the grub screws to stop thing rotating as I made the cut.

Overkill ?
Well I got a nice square cut very close to the correct length. I say it worked just fine.
BTW, The cones real life job is to hold my Milling Vice on the mill table.

I'm going to make the wheels. Cast Iron or mild Steel ? I have both in a suitable dia.
Axles will be Silver steel, probably 6mm rather than 1/4 " as I have loads of 6mm silver steel rod.

[Diane CarneyModerator @dianecarney30678]

Just to let you know, at Jason's suggestion I asked Martin Ranson to look in on this forum but he seems to be away on holiday. I haven't managed to get him by phone or email since the end of March.

Diane

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Hi Diane. Thanks for the update.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Alex, I would hope that there will be drawings for the wheels, axles and cranks in forthcomming installments so you should be able to make them. The saftey is something that can be bought from a number of suppliers, just hold off drilling and threading teh bush for it until its in your hand incase the thread is different.

Steel will be fine for the wheels.

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Reference IDRIS 16 mm loco. From martin ranson, sorry for the delay but my old computer is dying. Farewell to the old tower with the lovely large screen. I am using my wifes laptop with a tiny screen. I do not know why Diane Carney has been unable to contact us, especially by phone. On most days one of us is in, sat very near the phone. I have said to Diane that I am very happy for her to give my phone number to anyone interested in the IDRIS loco. In this case, especially to Alex Collins. For us to start a technical discussion by Email will take a very long time. It will be far quicker by phone, any evening after 6.30 PM. Assuming both of us have the ME magazine open at the appropriate page we should be able to sort out his problems. Probably I will learn a lot as well.

ALEX COLLINS 19/3 … using metric taps is perfectly OK and easy for things like the pressure gauge elbow. However for something like the stainless spindle in the gas supply valve be careful. Assume a thread of 3 x 0.6 mm was used it may change the characteristics of the valve opening. Using a size of 3 or 4 mm metric thread gives a choice of 3 different pitches. Using a size of say 5, 6, 8 or 10 mm diameter gives a choice of 4 pitches available. Be careful which one you use to match any particular ME thread.

ALEX COLLINS 24/3 … using loctite on the rectrictor may be awkward if it gets too hot. Possibly use 2 nuts locked hard against each other, or silver solder one nut on the end of the thread. The thread sealer was intended for the thread inside the fitting. As regards the smooth point of the valve spindle I always use a smooth needle file and then some very fine emery. Try 400 grade then 800 then 1200 grade. A bit of oil on the emery helps with producing a smooth surface. If you do not think it is safe to do this on the lathe then try using a cordless drill instead. The fire tube inside the boiler should be as low as possible, just clear of the inside surface of the flanged boiler end. Your first guess for the water gauge bushes was correct, they are drilled through into the boiler. The 4 or 6 BA bolt used as a temporary clamp was deliberately rusty so it could be removed later. The top end was then plugged. As regards the slots in the burner tube, the 0. 5 mm slitting saw is better and quicker than my method with a small hacksaw ground down. Providing the saw did not have any sideways wobble the slots will only end up a tiny bit wider than mine, can I suggest that you fire up the burner in a spare bit of 22m tube and see what happens. I have always used bronze or brass for the tubes, what will happen with the copper long term, I do not know.

ALEX COLLINS 13/4 … for a supplier try Roundhouse in Doncaster. tel 01302 328035 or http://www.roundhouse-eng .com. I wrote this article in the spring of 2014, I have since discovered that the wheels and axles started life in the Roundhouse factory. I have purchased more items from them very recently. Diane carney has my phone number on file. There must have been some mix-up with the number, I have said to her that I am perfectly happy for her to give the number to anyone interested in building the loco. Much quicker than endless Emails. I would love to talk about model engineering, sounds like I will learn something new.

DRAWING ERRORS … issue 4506, figure 7, down at the bottom of the picture are the words "2BA thread" . Just on the left of this is a strange lump of metal with a left hand thread, I have no idea what this is, certainly I did not place it there. A computer gremlin has added it. Going up the drawing to the top of the lubricator body in the middle, there is the word "drill" .. just under it was an arrow pointing downwards to indicate the location of the small hole 0. 021 " diameter. This is drilled carefully into the crossbar. Lastly in fig 5 there is an error which is mine, very sorry. At the top there is a measurement given as "distance between flanges nominal 1.232 " The vertical lines show this as the measurement of the inner flanges, obviously it should indicate the outer edge, the bit where the wheels fit onto the track.

Regards, martin

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Hi Martin and thank you very much for your comprehensive reply to my questions.
I can get on and complete the Boiler at this point.

Roundhouse certainly appear to have the Axles, wheels and Safety valve.
I'll get them ordered over the next few days.

Another Q for you.
The Gas Tank. Do you plan to provide drawings for that ?
They seem rather costly to buy and I have a spare ~5" length of 2" tube…..

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Alex … hopefully the editor will give my phone number to you soon … much quicker … the gas tank is a square shape … coming up later in sketches 19, 20, 21, 22 … it was a best fit for the space available … next engine I make will have a round one … much easier to make … I am just cutting the frames for it.

Regards martin

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Martin,

You can safely exchange 'phone numbers using the 'message member' icon below people's posts. This sends a 'private message'.

Neil

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Thanks Neil … I did not know that … have now given my number to Alex … martin

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

All the bushes are made.
I now have holes in the boiler tube for all the bushes.
Everything is a nice fit, just tight. By the time it's all cleaned up we will be spot on.

The end caps are bored for the fire tube. I decided on the thickness of the flange + 1.5mm for the fire tube height.
That way it is just above the radius on the end caps.

One thing I have learned. Don't solder the copper tube into the Steam bush before you try and fit it. I may have to remake this one. I'll flux it well and drop a ring of solder over the tube so that it as good as solders itself with the bush. Lets hope we don't block the tube in the process !
Other ideas welcome.

My Soldering plan very much follows Martins idea.
High temp for all the bushes in the boiler tube.
High temp for 1 end of the fire tube in it's end cap. Probably the one with the steam gauge.
The boiler tube I plan to heat from the inside with my larger torch. Once it's hot use a small torch on the outside just to run the solder.

I can then use Lower temp solder for the end caps and the other end of the fire tube.

Mental note: Need more pickle………

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Attempted soldering the end cap and pressure gauge bush yesterday.
Things didn't go well !
I just can't get it hot enough for Sllverflo 24 with my blowlamp.
I did however back out before any damage was done.
That no.5 flux is a pig to remove, I do know that much. Hot water and Scotchbrite seemed to do the trick.

Will attempt again today. A friend has a large Propane torch.

I also have Silverflo 55 and Easyflo No.2 solder and flux.

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Alex from martin ranson … years ago I bought two ROTHENBERGER blowlamps from the local plumbers merchants ( B and Q also sell them ) … wonderful creations … they use the yellow cylinders of MAP gas … NOT the red cylinders of propane … now I can melt brass and copper if I try … be careful where you point it !!! do not set the shed on fire !!!

martin

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Been getting on with the Boiler fittings.

Tomorrow I clean up and hope to silver solder this lot together.
One of the most valuable things I bought a while back is a set of Slow Spiral drills. They make drilling Brass and Bronze really easy. No Grabbing, even when you are breaking through on other holes.

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

MAP gas torch borrowed.
MAP gas bought.

Fluxed up the Oiler and away we went….

Or not as the case may be!

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

The rest of the Boiler fittings are in Pickle at the moment and soldered as expected with Easyflo2.

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Well done Alex, I am glad someone has taken on this engine from the series currently running in ME. It will be a great reference for everyone and make a change from the slog of larger machines that can be made. Personally I am stuck with building a 4" traction engine a 5" sweetpea and making a boiler for a 4 wheel chub. + domestic chores OH and working ( dull). I keep watching Jason who makes some very interesting models and I just wish I had the spare time.

so keep up the good work, I for one enjoy the forum listings that you are posting.

Brian

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