NOS is an abbreviation for New Old Stock. Got beaten to the answer!

Edited By Swarf Maker on 21/12/2019 14:16:11

Be a little careful buying 'New Old Stock' because it might be past it's sell-by date, or have been badly stored. Don't expect Boer War ration packs to be in perfect condition even if they are in their original crates! On the other hand, I've had beautifully packaged WW2 mechanical parts that were good as new inside.

A NOS Compac 532 is unlikely to be an antique – they're still available new. Looks like a reasonable buy.

Dave

Austin

A decent indicator at a reasonable price. But it may well not be best for you.

Its quite large and correspondingly heavy. Needs around 100 – 110 mm of length to operate. Requires a fairly study stand and adjusting arm for easy, reliable use. Short travel, only 10 mm, which should be enough for alignment and runout purposes. Resolution of 0.01 mm is probably fine for use on a Sherline but may well be inadequate if you move up to more accurate machinery. Rest position of needle is below zero by design so everything comes under tension before measurement starts. No backlash then.

Plunger type dial indicators were designed to be used in stands on a surface plate or similar to verify the size of components after manufacture. Usually to see if a production run was in tolerance. Parts would be slipped under one at time and either the reading noted directly or, more usually, the two little sliding tabs on the outside moved to show maximum and minimum tolerances. If the needle was between the tabs the part would be within tolerance. Assening accuracy as a measurement device is a can of worms, generally specifications refer to error in one turn of the main needle.

For alignment checks and setting up work in 4 jaw chucks the lever type is generally better. Verdict is the common generic trade name in the UK, (like Hoover for vacuum cleaners). For example **LINK** is pretty much the same as the one I got nearly 40 years ago. Its a null point indicator, not a measuring device although the scale is pretty close. Basically you tweak things until the needle sits on zero or only twitches slightly. Dial is inch and abit diameter so its compact and light. Easy to get into places and can be held just fine by a basic stand.

If you do go for a Verdict don't buy one with a round body as it will be very old, 1950's at latest. Verdicts last well but eventually the centralising springs loose tension and, for practical purposes it will be toast. Tenth thou reading ones are frustratingly sensitive. I have such but my little 1 thou ( about 0.08 mm) calibrated one is good for within 1/4 thou (0.02 mm) error in practice.

Clive

PS Andrew is faster on the keyboard.

Edited By Clive Foster on 21/12/2019 15:13:05

Edited By Clive Foster on 21/12/2019 15:22:14

Edited By Clive Foster on 21/12/2019 15:22:58

Edited By Clive Foster on 21/12/2019 15:23:28

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The one linked is, of course, the real Verdict version [exactly like mine] with the very desirable pear-shaped tip.

MichaelG.

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Edit:

” We invented the pear-shaped stylus point to avoid the co-sine error, inherent with the spherical end. In addition, the Verdict Dial Indicator has the unique and patented design of the coil type worm spiral, reducing friction and loading transfer movement to a minimum. This leaves less room for compound errors as found with the gear type indicators.”

Ref. https://mjallen.co.uk/products-and-services/metrology

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/12/2019 15:29:46

Can't edit my post above, just need to clarify that what I mean by 'a dial gauge' is 'a plunger type'

Tony

I'd echo the comments re lever indicators. I have a couple of Verdicts, one old and one "Sunday Best". They both get regular use and I wouldn't be without one or both. OTOH, I can't remember when I last used one of my plunger indicators. For sheer vesatility and convenience the Verdicts beat them hands down.

That’s it! Get a lever type since getting mine I use the plunger one only once a decade!. They are far more versatile, aided by their compact size and ability to move the lever to convenient positions. You can’t use a plunger type to work in a bore without inconvenient add on parts thus, turning it into a lever type!

As far as the needle position is concerned, I recently bought a Starrett dial gauge and as well as the usual "Made in America" QA card there was a note explaining that the pointer was deliberately set at 9 o'clock so that there was a quarter turn of pre-load if zero was set at the top. I guess enough people must have asked to make it worth inserting the notes.

Brian G

More than suitable, but the word I'd use is 'extravagant'!

What's your reason for wanting a pricey instrument? I own a lever type and a piston type DTI: they're both useful in different circumstances. Neither of mine are expected to be accurate. Instead they are used to compare distances or detect tiny relative movements. For example when centring work in a 4-jaw chuck, the DTI only needs to show there is next to no movement when the work is rotated. For that purpose in my workshop (0.01mm is plenty good enough) the dial doesn't need to be anything special.

My instruments are the inexpensive kind, a piston gauge as sold by ArcEuro for £17, and a lever DTI costing about £30. It's possible to find cheaper, but too cheap is best avoided! The difference between my dials and expensive gauges might include: better accuracy over a wider range (rarely needed in my experience), longer working life (provided you don't drop them), and smoother operation. In my opinion the last is the most useful feature. Inexpensive dials tend to be a little sticky in my experience, so using them needs extra care. In a professional workshop slick reliable instruments are worth having because time is money. Not so obvious what benefit a high-end dial gauge delivers in a home workshop.

My biggest regret buying down to a price wasn't the dials, it was the stand! I bought the simplest magnet base available. It works but sure doesn't make manoeuvring the dial into position easy. Unless money is no object, spend that £107 on a couple of cheaper dials and a stand with more joints in it!

Dave

PS. My views on tools are utilitarian. Ignore all of the above if enjoying 'nice' tools is to be part of your hobby and plenty of cash is available. My only objection to buying expensive tools is the money might well be spent more intelligently elsewhere.

I own dial gauges and dti’s from a few different manufacturers , Tesa ,compac , Starrett , Mitutoyo , Measuremax and a pile of no name cheapies .

On My Mill i like my last word by Starrett as it is very small and i don't have to move the head too much to get it in where i want it .

On my Lathe i generally use a no name dial indicator unit ( plunger type )as I’m only using it as a comparitor to true up the workpiece but if i want to get something dead nuts on i go over to a dti once i get it close with a dial gauge – why use a dial gauge first ? It has more travel as all mine are 1 inch travel minimum .

The measuremax dti has a long stylus which is handy for indicating bores or journals where a short stylus may not reach. .

One benefit of a dial gauge over a dti is the size of the face which can make them a little easier to read and another is that they can be used to measure table or saddle travel when machining ( a poor mans dro ) because they have more travel than a dti .

As for having the plunger perfectly perpendicular to the workpiece when setting a part up in a 4 jaw near enough by eye is good enough as you are using it as a comparitor so any error is self canceling . If you were using it as a measuring device on a surface plate then yes it is important and a dti is easier to set up in that instance but you also need to be aware some manufacturers will state a specific angle that the stylus needs to be from the surface being measured if you are to use it as a true measuring device and not a comparitor .

I would use my cheap dial gauge units probably 95% of the time on the lathe and if it gets damaged who cares it cost $15 bucks and i have a few in the cupboard in case i need one ! I would steer away from really cheap dti’s though as you want at least a reasonable quality mechanism for reliability. , My measuremax is asian made but not too bad – but not even close to a brown and sharpe !

Be careful buying online as you may have issues with warranty if something does go wrong , If you must buy a Mitutoyo then i would suggest you get onto the Mitutoyo website and look for a certified seller in your country and please be aware there are clones of the Mitutoyo Equipment out there everywhere

It really depends on what you want it for ? If it is just for setting a part up in a 4 jaw then i would look at the dial gauge from ARC as SOD has mentioned and keep your cash for something else – maybe a decent mag stand ? IF you want to tram a mill vice in or indicate a bore on the mill or lathe then a dti is what you want but by buying reasonable quality you could get both for the price of the Mitutoyo .
Remember it is a hobby not a carreer!

One thing that may be worth considering is splashing out the extra on a vertical DTI where the dial is on the end of the body. It can be used on the lathe or for trueing the vice (or stock) on a mill in the same way as the more conventional horizontal type, but when centring work on the mill the dial is always visible, so no need for a mirror.

Unlike horizontal DTIs I haven't seen sub-£10 ones on eBay or Amazon but elsewhere they start at about £30 (Zoro have an "Oxford" one reduced to £28.99 right now with free postage).

Brian G