Help with drilling a flat bottomed hole

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Help with drilling a flat bottomed hole

Home Forums Beginners questions Help with drilling a flat bottomed hole

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 27 total)
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  • #282985
    David Cambridge
    Participant
      @davidcambridge45658

      Hello All

      I need to drill a flat bottomed hole 10mm in diameter and 4mm in depth in the end of some bar stock. It will be used to locate a 10 mm outside diameter bearing.

      I’ve put my bar stock in a collet chuck (in the lathe), I’ve centre drilled, then drilled to 4mm diameter and 20 mm depth with a twist drill, then drilled to 6mm diameter and 20 mm depth with a twist drill, and then drilled to 10 mm diameter and 4 mm depth with a 2 flute end mill. Unfortunately, I’ve ended up with a 10.35 mm diameter hole.

      I’ve no idea why, can anyone offer any guidance ?

      Thanks

      David

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      #8554
      David Cambridge
      Participant
        @davidcambridge45658

        Help with drilling a flat bottomed hole

        #282988
        Paul Lousick
        Participant
          @paullousick59116

          Is the tailstock aligned with the headstock ? The end mill could be cutting on one side only and working like a boring tool.

          Paul

          #282989
          Ian P
          Participant
            @ianp

            The only sensible way of creating a bore of the correct diameter and depth that your bearing requires is to bore it (with a singe point tool).

            Apart from the fact that an end mill is not designed to bore holes of a precise diameter it would have to be very accurately centered which is not really guaranteed when a chuck etc and tailstock are involved.

            If you have not got a small boring bar and dont want to grind one, you can always clamp a small (say 5mm) endmill in the toolpost and use one of its teeth as a boring tool.

            Ian P

            #282991
            David Cambridge
            Participant
              @davidcambridge45658

              I did wonder if that was the case, and it is a while since I checked tailstock alignment. I will do so tomorrow. I haven’t noticed any other problems ,and 0.3 mm error does seem quite bad.

              I should add that the part is brass.

              David

              #282992
              Hopper
              Participant
                @hopper

                +1 on small boring bar. You can grind up something to do the job from a piece of 5/16" HSS or the like.

                #282994
                David Cambridge
                Participant
                  @davidcambridge45658

                  Thanks all. It sounds like the boring bar is the way to go!

                  David

                  #283025
                  Ian S C
                  Participant
                    @iansc

                    If the worst comes to worst, you could grind up a little boring tool from an old file, old chain saw files are good for this, and as you are boring brass, carbon steel is ideal.

                    Ian S C

                    #283027
                    Martin Kyte
                    Participant
                      @martinkyte99762

                      If you don't like boring small blind holes or your bar is long and you don't like fixed steadies then.

                      1. Turn a 10mm spigot on the end of the bar say 5mm long.

                      2. Turn up a collar 9mm long with a drilled and reamed hole up the middle. OD a tad bigger than the bar.

                      3. Loctite the collar to the spigot.

                      4. True up the bar in the four jaw and turn the outside of the collar to match the OD of the bar.

                      regards Martin

                      #283031
                      roy entwistle
                      Participant
                        @royentwistle24699

                        Why does it have to be flat bottomed ? Printing presses I worked on had several bearing positioned in blind holes none of which were flat bottomed, the cone shaped depression formed a sink for grease

                        #283032
                        MW
                        Participant
                          @mw27036

                          I'm surprised here,

                          You can grind your own flat bottoming drill out of a regular twist drill. The geometry isn't that complicated to do on your own bench grinder.

                          Bear in mind that the drill is not suitable for anything other than bottoming at that point. But what's the cost of a 10mm twist drill? not much I wager.

                          Not the best image, one with angles would be better. But it demonstrates the basic cutting shape you're after..

                          So it's basically flat or 180 degree kind of shape, but with relief angles towards the edges, so that it cuts. Theres another couple of angles on the sides, that's just to make sure the cutting point goes all the way to the centre and doesn't leave a pip or dimple.

                          You can buy flat bottomed drills commercially in some places, but I think they cost considerably more than a regular drill, simply due to their uncommon usage.

                          So to use it, drill your normal 10mm hole, to depth, including the point of the drill. Then run this one down the hole, make a note of how deep the angles of the point are on the regular drill, then that's your number for your flat drills working depth. Drill to that depth, and you should have an accurate flat depth.

                          My experience for this comes from college, where I had a 15mm thick piece of steel where we had to drill a variety of tapped, reamed, spot facing and flat bottomed holes!

                          Michael W

                          Edited By Michael-w on 08/02/2017 10:22:34

                          #283052
                          Michael Briggs
                          Participant
                            @michaelbriggs82422

                            +1 on small boring bar.

                            #283059
                            JasonB
                            Moderator
                              @jasonb

                              Michael there is not much difference between regrinding a drill and using a milling cutter like the OP did but getting the hole spot on dia is not easy with either method.

                              I'd also use a small boring bar, if you do't have one a slot drill of say 6mm dia held in the toolpost makes a reasonable boring tool.

                              #283061
                              MW
                              Participant
                                @mw27036
                                Posted by JasonB on 08/02/2017 12:28:20:

                                Michael there is not much difference between regrinding a drill and using a milling cutter like the OP did but getting the hole spot on dia is not easy with either method.

                                I'd also use a small boring bar, if you do't have one a slot drill of say 6mm dia held in the toolpost makes a reasonable boring tool.

                                Pfft, I never work to accuracy smile p

                                Michael W

                                #283186
                                samuel heywood
                                Participant
                                  @samuelheywood23031

                                  End mills are usually ground to nominal size with better accuracy than twist drills. The're also shorter/stiffer than your average twist drill.

                                  If your hole came out 10.35mm suggests to me around 0.175mm misalignment in the tailstock/chuck combo ?

                                  As others have said bore to size is best for accuracy.

                                  If however you're lazy / don't like boring small holes ( like me) ~try drilling with a 9.8mm/9.9mm or 25/64" drill, then "ream" out & flatten bottom with 10mm EM.

                                  Or maybe drill 3/8" if you think above drills will still result in oversize hole before "reaming" ?

                                  just a suggestion.

                                  I've had good results with EM's 'boring' holes in the tailstock, wasn't looking for super precision though.

                                  #283194
                                  Nigel McBurney 1
                                  Participant
                                    @nigelmcburney1

                                    A slot drill and end mills are ground slightly hollow ground so when plunged they do not produce a true flat bottom,,a slot drill held in the tailstock and plunging into brass will not hold a true or exact diameter,and certainly no good enough to locate a bearing accurately,always bore the hole with a single point tool.

                                    #283206
                                    David Cambridge
                                    Participant
                                      @davidcambridge45658

                                      Thanks Chaps

                                      The idea of using an end mill as a boring bar worked perfectly!

                                      #283260
                                      samuel heywood
                                      Participant
                                        @samuelheywood23031
                                        Posted by David Cambridge on 08/02/2017 23:14:18:

                                        Thanks Chaps

                                        The idea of using an end mill as a boring bar worked perfectly!

                                        Neat ! glad you got sorted & thanks for sharing video.

                                        #284170
                                        PaulR
                                        Participant
                                          @paulr
                                          Posted by David Cambridge on 08/02/2017 23:14:18:

                                          Thanks Chaps

                                          The idea of using an end mill as a boring bar worked perfectly!

                                          Very interesting!

                                          How did you set the tool height?

                                          Paul

                                          #284173
                                          MW
                                          Participant
                                            @mw27036
                                            Posted by PaulR on 14/02/2017 13:20:14:

                                            Very interesting!

                                            How did you set the tool height?

                                            Paul

                                            I'll take a guess it's by using a QCTP holder, micrometre knurled screw head To set the height. Or he might have a verticle slider.

                                            It might be a bored round homemade holder or the QCTP holders with a vee slot for holding round shanks.

                                            Michael W

                                            Edited By Michael-w on 14/02/2017 13:30:11

                                            #284185
                                            PaulR
                                            Participant
                                              @paulr
                                              Posted by Michael-w on 14/02/2017 13:28:34:

                                              Posted by PaulR on 14/02/2017 13:20:14:

                                              Very interesting!

                                              How did you set the tool height?

                                              Paul

                                              I'll take a guess it's by using a QCTP holder, micrometre knurled screw head To set the height. Or he might have a verticle slider.

                                              It might be a bored round homemade holder or the QCTP holders with a vee slot for holding round shanks.

                                              Michael W

                                              Edited By Michael-w on 14/02/2017 13:30:11

                                              Um, should have been clearer, I meant how high was the cutting flute set… at centre height as usual? Not having a tool to hand I can't visualise the fall off/relief to think if it would cut properly set like that or whether it would need to be set lower and rotated a little.

                                              EDIT But on reflection it's obviously no different to normal milling just in a different orientation and with the material curving in toward the cutting edge. I must try this later!

                                               

                                              Edited By PaulR on 14/02/2017 14:19:37

                                              #284190
                                              David Cambridge
                                              Participant
                                                @davidcambridge45658

                                                I’ve a QCTP, and an aluminium bar that if I rest one end on the lathe bed is the correct length for the other end to be centre height. Then it’s just a case of lining up the end of the milling cutter flute with the end of the aluminium bar (bye eye – seemed to work well enough!)

                                                David

                                                #284194
                                                JasonB
                                                Moderator
                                                  @jasonb

                                                  Just imagine that the other flutes are not there and set it as you would any HSS boring bar with the corner on ctr height.

                                                  You do neet to set the tool at a very slight angle with the blunt end a fraction further behind the lathe axis to stop the risk of rubbing and this equals out the slight conical end you get when plunging with a lilling cutter.

                                                  #284202
                                                  PaulR
                                                  Participant
                                                    @paulr
                                                    Posted by JasonB on 14/02/2017 14:46:16:

                                                    Just imagine that the other flutes are not there and set it as you would any HSS boring bar with the corner on ctr height.

                                                    You do neet to set the tool at a very slight angle with the blunt end a fraction further behind the lathe axis to stop the risk of rubbing and this equals out the slight conical end you get when plunging with a lilling cutter.

                                                    Thanks Jason, will give this a blast later!

                                                    #284405
                                                    Ian S C
                                                    Participant
                                                      @iansc

                                                      Even better, you can use that cutter with all but one point knocked off. Never throw away old HSS tools, taps, end mills, center drills with the tip broken, they all make emergency lathe tools.

                                                      Ian S C

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