Lathe cutting a taper

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Lathe cutting a taper

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  • #788343
    Chris Mate
    Participant
      @chrismate31303

      I bought a new CQ6133 lathe few years back. I worked around the taper cuttng problem, but are back at it again.

      Note-1:Shimming & measuring=OK
      -I Fitted a 16mm HSS grounded bar with 110mm stickout from 3 Jaw chuck. MY 3 jaw chuck had been modified to true adjust. So I adjust the chuck to run this bar without runout=OK.
      -I managed to ajust/shimmed rear of bed inside bolt to .014″ shim. With this the .01mm Dial Indicator run true zero deflextion/taper along the HSS bar=OK.

      Note-2:Cutting another Test Bar, setup as above=OK.
      -As soon as I take a lightish cut with new insert(10mm shank type), I get a taper not good up to .1mm taper.
      -Now I can duplicate this by pulling on the bar with one finger, I can pull it easily up to .1mm, with force up to .18mm.

      Note-3:Checking headstock versus Spindle backplate versus MT5 versus face of backplate.
      a)The spindle run 100% true(I was surprised), the spindle face run 100% true(I was surprised again).
      b)Fit chuck & HSS Bar. Fit Dial indicator to headstock & measure from headstock to spindle, to chuck, to HSS bar. No movement with finger, zero. If I grab the bar with hand and pull as hard as I can, the deflection is minimal at less than.01mm, which certainly is not the problem I am looking for.

      Note-4: Check headstock fit to Bed .
      -The headstock is tight, I cannot tighten the bolt anymore.
      -At this stage the bed is tight to the plate on cabinet, and run without taper from crossslide with shim, and without cutting or pulling.

      Question: Where does this cause of the taper comes from-?

      If you fit a bar to your chuck and pull on it, how much deflection do you get-?
      -The pulling wih one finger to seems like similar taking a light cut.

      If it was the spindle bearings, I would thought I saw that in the headstock/chuck/Bar test-?

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      #788350
      JasonB
      Moderator
        @jasonb

        Note-1:
        -I Fitted a 16mm HSS grounded bar with 110mm stickout from 3 Jaw chuck.

        Note-2:Cutting another Test Bar, setup as above=OK.
        -As soon as I take a lightish cut with new insert(10mm shank type), I get a taper not good up to .1mm taper.

         

        To me 110mm of 16mm bar sticking out is not a good idea, Ctr drill it and use tailstock support

        #788362
        bernard towers
        Participant
          @bernardtowers37738

          your turning test should be done with a dumbbell shaped bar and with compound set to 5.75 deg. and then test cuts of tenths can be taken (3 or 4) then measurements taken.

          #788378
          Chris Mate
          Participant
            @chrismate31303

            What puzzels me the most, is not cutting a test bar, but the fact that measured from the Headstock nothing moves(Hard pull), but measuring from crosslide it moves a lot(Soft pull), and that make sense to the taper it cuts under very light load…….I just cannot see where this is coming from yet. The bed cannot be that flimsy…..

            From the headstock to the tip of the bar(Chuck & chuck jaws included) nothing moves, my 1st thought it was the spindle bearings, but it does not look that way.

            #788379
            bernard towers
            Participant
              @bernardtowers37738

              If you are going by soft pull and hard pull thats not very scientific you should let the lathe do the work then measure and yes a lot of latje beds are flimsy to a small degree. the twist can be adjusted with adjustable feet.

              #788385
              Michael Gilligan
              Participant
                @michaelgilligan61133

                Slight digression, but I think it’s worth looking at Schlesinger’s design for a test mandrel … It puts the flexibility of all such items into the proper perspective !

                Details are on p5 in the widely downloadable book.

                MichaelG.

                #788441
                Martin Connelly
                Participant
                  @martinconnelly55370

                  What inserts are you using? The long stick out relative to the diameter (slenderness ratio) of 6.8 is well in excess of most recommended values, typically 2.5 to 3 depending on the material being machined. Coupled with the relative bluntness of the majority of carbide inserts it will result in the bar moving away from the cutting tool at the free end. This will give a larger diameter at the free end than is turned close to the chuck.

                  As Jason said, supporting the free end is a good starting point, then use ground inserts rather than just moulded ones, using a well sharpened HSS tool with a small radius tip to minimise the pressure on the bar is also better than most moulded inserts. Finally for long slim parts a travelling follower rest will reduce flexing of the part but is a lot of messing around if you can avoid it and does not work in all cases, shoulders can get in the way for example.

                  Martin C

                  #788442
                  bernard towers
                  Participant
                    @bernardtowers37738

                    i think we are at cross purposes here as the OP is concerned about the lathe turning tapered, no mention of tailstock use. these are two different things and adjustments made to alter things are different. the one for unsupported turning is usually bed twist and the second is tailstock misalignment.

                    #788443
                    JasonB
                    Moderator
                      @jasonb

                      Not at crossed purposes but debating if it is the fault of the lathe or simply bad practice with so much stickout and “blunt” tools that is causing the taper.

                      But how far is reasonable unsupported turning. I’d not want to start twisting my bed to compensate for what is most likely to be the work deflecting away from the tool.

                      Before touching anything I would try it with some 30-40mm bar and sharper cutting tools on a warmed up machine. Only then if the same amount of taper is present would I think about looking further.

                      Though we have not been given any indication of which way the taper runs which could eliminate the work deflection if the dia is smaller away from the chuck.

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