The units are consistent in using both ºF and inches, as any table published using one of those is likely to use the other; but I wonder how many people would take that answer at face value and go wrong as a result.

It’s more than verbal imprecision, it’s a wrong definition.

The wonder of AI for me is that anyone trusts anything it says at the moment. The more ignorant the user is the more crazy the AI output seems to be because it responds to the question asked, not with intelligence but with guesses at what the questions is about. A fine example of that long standing computing acronym GIGO.

Martin C

Well I agree with Martin, AI is not so intelligent after all !  Frankly we all need to question everything found on the internet.  Yes its an amazing resource BUT there is a great deal of misinformation therein including in Wiki !

We are entering a frightening era hopefully it will come right but keep your eye firmly on the ball and don’t trust AI

John

The difference there is that the first question was a straight enquiry about a fact of metallurgy; the second a matter of musical taste though with facts of composers and performers.

Objective knowledge or subjective opinion.

So perhaps AI is more reliable for information if asked properly about incontrovertible facts.

Though I still prefer Real Intelligence and can’t help thinking the ‘I’ of ‘AI’ could equally stand for “Idiocy”…..

The real test is when the AI designs the component. That’s where you find out what it really knows about thermal expansion.

On 31 January 2025 at 22:04 Nigel Graham 2 Said:

The difference there is that the first question was a straight enquiry about a fact of metallurgy; the second a matter of musical taste though with facts of composers and performers.

Objective knowledge or subjective opinion.

So perhaps AI is more reliable for information if asked properly about incontrovertible facts.

Though I still prefer Real Intelligence and can’t help thinking the ‘I’ of ‘AI’ could equally stand for “Idiocy”…..

 

Indeed, but human intelligence is extremely untrustworthy too.  Think spam, faulty memory, misunderstandings, joining the dots, wishful thinking, prejudice, ignorance, stupidity, small-c conservatism, mental health issues,  conflation, cognitive dissonance, gut reaction, outdated knowledge, missing facts, drawing wrong conclusion from  evidence, not understanding logic and scientific method etc.   We also like to be told what we want to hearn not uncomfortable reallities!

Last year AI achieved a breakthrough, but like Newcomen’s steam engine, the technology has a long way to go. Only 80 years since Turing identified computational limits, and the technology is still immature.

At present AI is best with facts, and poor at filtering out human nonsense.  So are people!

AI gets really exciting when it can’t be distinguished from human intelligence.  We’re not there yet!  As far as I know though, there is nothing that AI cannot do within the bounds of known information theory.  A big plus is it’s unlikely throw emotional wobblers.  For the moment AI makes GIGO mistakes; be interesting to see if it learns to lie from us.

Dave

On 31 January 2025 at 22:53 SillyOldDuffer Said:

[…]
For the moment AI makes GIGO mistakes; be interesting to see if it learns to lie from us.

Dave

What is interesting, right now whilst I’m playing with ChatGPT, is that it is [very politely] attempting to teach me to ask better [i.e. more answerable] questions

… That’s very impressive.

MichaelG.

Must stop playing and go shopping … but my latest interaction was to first ask:

Describe the Moebius Strip

and then

is there no end to this 🙂

The responses were both very [dare one say] “Intelligent”

… Mmmm

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ I’ve just closed with the compliment:

Touché

but it wants to keep playing !

I will let you show us how it should be done, Martin … but my humble effort has at least extracted recognition of the error AND an apology

First I quoted your text, and it answered

Then I wrote: But in a previous discussion you claimed it was lower

That was all it took !

No … it’s nowhere near perfect, but it’s already better than a lot of people.

MichaelG.

No … The computer [for the moment] simply has rapid access to the fund of human knowledge.

It’s the next-steps that will be really interesting

MichaelG.

All AI models get stuff wrong.The earlier the mode,l the more they ‘Hallucinate’. The latest Chatgpt model available is 01 (03 will be released in the near future) the current public model is GPT 4 .

01 model is a HUGE step forward from 4, and 03 is another massive step forward.

An example of how badly the gpt 4 model is this….

You said:
principles and guidelines of ISO 12181
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
ISO 12181 is a standard that provides guidelines for the testing and management of the functional performance of industrial and commercial vehicles, particularly focusing on materials handling equipment like forklift trucks. The principles and guidelines it establishes ensure safety, efficiency, and performance in the operation of such vehicles, helping to standardise their design, construction, and testing processes.

Some of the key principles and guidelines outlined in ISO 12181 include:

Safety: Ensuring that vehicles are safe for operation in various environments, especially considering risks such as tipping, load handling, and operational stability.
Performance Testing: Establishing clear methods for evaluating the functional performance of vehicles, ensuring they meet required standards for tasks like lifting, load capacity, and manoeuvrability.
Design Standards: Defining design requirements for different types of industrial vehicles to ensure they can operate efficiently and safely under standard conditions.
Maintenance and Inspection: Providing guidelines for the ongoing maintenance and periodic inspection of the vehicles to keep them in optimal working condition.
Environmental Conditions: Considering the impact of the operational environment, such as temperature, humidity, and surface conditions, on the vehicle’s performance and safety.
Equipment and Accessory Compatibility: Offering specifications for accessories or add-ons that might be used with the vehicles, ensuring they integrate correctly with the overall design and function of the machine.
These guidelines help manufacturers, operators, and safety authorities ensure that vehicles meet a certain standard for reliability and safety in material handling contexts.

If you’re looking into more specific details or a particular aspect of ISO 12181, feel free to ask!

You said:
i dont think that is correct
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Apologies for the confusion earlier! You’re right to point out the discrepancy.

ISO 12181 actually relates to the design and testing of vehicle components, specifically in the context of pneumatic tyres used on vehicles, such as those for material handling. The correct context involves guidelines for ensuring that these tyres meet certain performance standards.

To clarify the key principles and guidelines of ISO 12181:

Tyre Specifications: The standard specifies the criteria for the design, performance, and testing of pneumatic tyres for vehicles, ensuring they meet minimum safety and quality standards.
Testing Procedures: It outlines the methods for testing the tyres to ensure they can perform under specific conditions, such as load capacity, temperature, and durability.
Performance Metrics: ISO 12181 defines key metrics like rolling resistance, traction, and wear characteristics, ensuring that the tyres perform optimally in different environmental conditions.
Safety Standards: The standard helps in maintaining vehicle safety by ensuring the tyres are reliable under various operating conditions, reducing risks related to vehicle handling and stability.
Compatibility with Vehicle Types: ISO 12181 offers guidance on choosing the correct type of tyre for different vehicle types, depending on the load, terrain, and performance requirements.
Once again, my apologies for the earlier mix-up! Does that align more with what you’re looking for, or is there another aspect you’d like me to elaborate on?

You said:
no iso 12181 concerns roundness measurments
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
You are absolutely correct, and I apologise for the previous confusion. ISO 12181 is indeed focused on the measurement of roundness of components, particularly in mechanical and engineering contexts.

ISO 12181 provides guidelines on measuring the roundness of circular parts, such as shafts, bearings, and other components, ensuring they meet specific tolerances for proper functionality. The standard is crucial in industries where precision and quality are critical, such as in automotive or manufacturing settings.

Here are the key principles and guidelines of ISO 12181:

Roundness Measurement: The standard outlines methods for measuring the roundness of a workpiece, ensuring it adheres to the required tolerances. This is particularly important for ensuring smooth operation in machinery, where any deviation from perfect roundness could lead to wear or mechanical failure.
Measurement Tools: ISO 12181 defines the types of instruments that can be used for roundness measurement, such as roundness testers, profilometers, and coordinate measuring machines (CMMs). These tools must be properly calibrated to ensure accurate results.
Testing Methods: The standard provides detailed procedures for performing the roundness test. This includes the use of various techniques, such as the least-squares method, to assess the form and roundness of the component.
Tolerance Guidelines: ISO 12181 establishes specific tolerance limits for roundness, allowing manufacturers to control and minimise variations in circularity, ensuring that parts function properly when assembled into larger systems.
Data Analysis and Reporting: It offers guidelines on how to interpret the measurement data, including the presentation of results in a clear and consistent manner for quality control and certification purposes.
Applications: The standard is commonly applied in the production of precision components, particularly in automotive, aerospace, and industrial machinery sectors, where maintaining roundness is vital for performance and longevity.
Thank you for your patience, and I hope this now correctly addresses your query! Let me know if you’d like any further details on specific aspects of ISO 12181.

I already knew what the standard was pertaining to.

I asked for the ‘principles and guidlines’ to try and get some more details to save me from purchasing the standard.