Tack weld then silver solder?

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Tack weld then silver solder?

Home Forums Workshop Techniques Tack weld then silver solder?

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  • #778137
    Perko7
    Participant
      @perko7

      Had a search through the forum but could not find any previous discussion on this topic. I have an assembly of steel bits that I want to silver solder together, but I am having difficulty holding them in correct alignment to do so. It would be much simpler if I could tack weld them in position with a stick welder and then silver solder. Has anybody done this before and are there any pitfalls to look out for?

      I accept that I will need to very carefully clean around the area of the weld and flux well but the tacks will only be small in comparison with the area of the silver soldered joint so even if the solder did not take in that location it would not seriously compromise the strength of the assembly.

      Some of the components have quite a bit of machining on them which I would not want to repeat if I don’t have to.

      I may need to do a few trial assemblies first to check if it will work acceptably.

      Any relevant advice gratefully accepted.

       

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      #778152
      Nigel Graham 2
      Participant
        @nigelgraham2

        Surely it would be better to use one or the other, only, rather than a mixture, for quality?

        Using an arc-welder suggests these are fairly hefty components that could be welded anyway. The possibility of the solder not taking around the tack-welds suggests the joint does not need be fluid-tight (gas or liquid).

        Since the problem appears to be one of work-holding, make simple jigs to hold the parts together.

        Another approach you could consider, whether silver-brazing or welding, is to use a few judiciously-placed, small screws tapped into suitable points. This obviously depends on the nature of the components, but the screws can be cut off and finished flush afterwards if required. It also keeps the joint faces clean – which they might not be if partially welded, due to any welding flux that’s penetrated the crevice.

        #778162
        Nicholas Farr
        Participant
          @nicholasfarr14254

          Hi Perko7, I’ve never tried it myself, and never heard or seen of it been done, but cleaning all the oxides around the tack, produced by the heat, may prove to be difficult, and could effect how close the silver solder will flow. There maybe an acid flux that will do the job with success though. Tacking with TIG might be a better bet, as these can be very small tacks, and you can allow the shielding gas to continue to flow when the arc stops, which should help stop oxides forming while the area around the tacks cool. but it would be dependent on ones skill.

          Regards Nick.

          #778163
          JasonB
          Moderator
            @jasonb

            I have considered it with some of my fabrications but in the end found other ways to hold the parts. I only have a stick welde and although you may be able to clean the visible surfaces it is the mating two faces where the solder should be that you can’t get to and I assume the solder can’t either.

            Building it up as more than one assembly that can be brazed and then soldered with different melting point solders is one way. One solder and keeping the heat off previous work another. Also tabs and notches as part of the initial design will often keep parts inplace as the whole thing becomes self locating.

            #778169
            Nealeb
            Participant
              @nealeb

              Well, I have used this technique and it works well. At least, for the kinds of thing I was making. The frame stretchers for my Black 5 are fabricated from multiple CNC-cut steel (typically 3mm) components, using tab-and-slot to locate the pieces. On some of these fabrications I have been able to use a strategically-placed through bolt to hold them for silver-soldering but for others, a small touch of MIG weld was enough to keep it together. Wire brush followed by pickling in ultrasonic bath (my usual treatment) seemed to be sufficient before fluxing in the usual way. Didn’t really care about s-s in region of weld as I didn’t need water-tightness and weld replaced s-s for strength in that area anyway.

              Why didn’t I just weld the whole thing? Have you seen the quality of my welding? TIG would have been a great choice but I don’t have the kit or the skills to use it!

              #778183
              Dave Halford
              Participant
                @davehalford22513

                If you had a mig I don’t think there would be a problem. For stick, parts need to be firmly clamped as striking the arc is a more forceful + the flux can be a pain to remove.

                With silver solder large lumps need a lot of heat, though the reluctance of steel to conduct means you can build up components without the rest detaching later. The down side being everything goes black.

                If you have an old style carbon arc torch you could braze it. Still all black, but cheaper.

                #778206
                noel shelley
                Participant
                  @noelshelley55608

                  I would be cautious ! Talk of MIG, TIG, stick, carbon arc, ultrasonic baths Etc The OP has not told us what equipment he has to hand ? For stick the risk of the whole lot falling in a pile as you strike the arc is real unless the jig of frame hold is firm. The shrinkage of the weld will cause serious movement unless allowed for. The removal of slag will be a challenge ! MIG or TIG will avoid the slag issue but shrinkage will be there though to a lesser extent. Brazing with brass will be cheaper than silver but need a higher temperature. Take your pick and Good Luck. Noel.

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