How to cut these slots?

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How to cut these slots?

Home Forums Beginners questions How to cut these slots?

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  • #775286
    Ian Parkin
    Participant
      @ianparkin39383

      I’m making a new flat top yoke for a motorcycle to mount handlebars onto directly..

      I’ve cut out a blank and bored the holes on the lathe and it fits well on the forks

      however i have to cut the clamping bolts slots…

      the back one is easy on the bandsaw but any ideas on how to cut the internal ones

      the holes are 35mm diameter and the alloy is 25mm thick…IMG_7506

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      #775294
      JasonB
      Moderator
        @jasonb

        If you are happy with a bandsawn one for the easy cut then a hacksaw should do the others

        #775313
        Clive Foster
        Participant
          @clivefoster55965

          Hacksaw works OK but you may find the slot bit narrow.

          A power hacksaw blade is wider but harder to control. A relatively fine tooth one works well enough to enlarge an ordinary hacksaw blade slot.

          Stiff enough that you don’t need a frame, wrapping a few layers of duct tape around the end of a broken one to form a safe handgrip makes a useful tool for this sort of thing.

          Clive

          #775324
          Ian Parkin
          Participant
            @ianparkin39383

            Actually i thought a jig saw with a Coarse wood blade should do it but I’ll bear in mind the power hacksaw blade Clive

            #775329
            DC31k
            Participant
              @dc31k

              Two hacksaw blades in the same frame to achieve a wider kerf.

              As the item is flat, you can clamp something hardish top and bottom (4 pieces total) to act as a guide so the cut does not wander (test cut on a piece of scrap so you can measure the kerf and thus the spacing between the guides.

              If you are jigsawing, you can clamp a similar guide on to ensure a straight cut.

              Are the yokes to be further reduced in size to more closely resemble the original? If not, the two slots you want to cut may not clamp up as there is a lot more metal surrounding them.

              #775333
              Ian Parkin
              Participant
                @ianparkin39383

                DC31K. Sure they will be as original size wise the originals are cast and the underneath is hollow perhaps only 10mm thick in the middle section..not sure how to deal with the lack of squeeze..

                #775369
                Grizzly bear
                Participant
                  @grizzlybear

                  Squeeze.  Drill, tap & grub screws in addition to your squeeze.

                  Good luck……..

                  #775406
                  Clive Foster
                  Participant
                    @clivefoster55965

                    Two hacksaw blades in one frame is common tip for wider slot. But I could never get a pair to work properly to cut a neat slot.

                    Put it down to the blade tensions being a bit different. The mounting pins on all my frames have significant angle pointing out of the ends of the frame to ensure the blade doesn’t ping off when tightening. So the inner blade carries less tension.

                    When the Rapidor power hacksaw broke a blade I said “Ah ha” and made half into a knife and half into a slot widener. The knife is great, takes a really keen edge. The slot cutting thingy gets used about once in 3 years!

                    Clive

                    #775409
                    Vic
                    Participant
                      @vic

                      I like things neat and tidy so I’d be tempted to try milling a slot with a 1/16 slot drill on some scrap material first? None of mine are long enough so it would need to be cut from both sides.

                      #775410
                      Nimble
                      Participant
                        @nimble

                        Hi Ian,

                        My suggestion would be to  invert a jigsaw and mount on a wooden platform. Use a metal cutting blade and cut the necessary slots using a guide to keep slot in correct place.

                        NimbleNeil.

                        #775427
                        Phil P
                        Participant
                          @philp

                          I think you will find that the slots will not give enough grip to the fork stanchions even when done up very tight.
                          The material will be just too stiff to deform enough.

                          Why not use some split cotters a bit like this idea.
                          https://toolingaround.ca/lmb4.php

                          Phil

                          #775429
                          Ian Parkin
                          Participant
                            @ianparkin39383

                            Phil the split collets are a great idea but I’m slightly worried about locally crushing the stanchions..they are quite thin wall and with  an internal thread for the top nuts to hold onto to

                            #775435
                            Phil P
                            Participant
                              @philp

                              I wonder if you could put a slot right across between the two stanchions, that way you should be able to get in with a slitting saw, the long slot should weaken the material enough to get a grip with any luck.
                              You could actually remove some of the material between the stanchions at the front of the slot so you are left with shorter slots at either side with a couple of clamp scews on each. As per fag packet sketch below.

                              IMG_20250107_205015593

                              #775492
                              duncan webster 1
                              Participant
                                @duncanwebster1

                                If you go to rsonline and search for locking bush you will find clever taper affairs that might obviate the need for slots. You’d need to bore the holes bigger, looks like there is some scope as wall thickness appears greater than original

                                #775512
                                bernard towers
                                Participant
                                  @bernardtowers37738

                                  The slots on my bikes are quite large one is 5/32 so why not mill with a long series cutter

                                  #775549
                                  bernard towers
                                  Participant
                                    @bernardtowers37738

                                    Correct me if I am wrong but those slots dont look symmetrical, the one at the top looks to be the one that is right as its angle has thinned the material to be pinched by the bolt. Just an observation.

                                    #775551
                                    Ian Parkin
                                    Participant
                                      @ianparkin39383

                                      Duncan I haven’t seen those locking bushes before on any machine I’ve come across and they surely would work but the outside dia on this fenner one is 60mm so it would need to be lots bigger round the stauntions..IMG_3138

                                      this more pics of the original dropped yoke and my new one awaiting final finishing but the hole with the cut to the outside which I’d imagined would clamp up nicely doesn’t at all…

                                      IMG_3139IMG_3140

                                      #775584
                                      Clive Foster
                                      Participant
                                        @clivefoster55965

                                        I imagine that the considerable reduction in thickness over the central potion of the original, cast or forged, yoke compared to the outer web and the immediate surroundings of the holes influences the ability of the slot to close up when clamped.

                                        My one and only experience of making special triple clamps (yokes) was well over a decade ago but, as I recall things, the first test with the material still of constant thickness was very unwilling to clamp up. I think it sort of did but the bolt torque needed seemed dangerously high. For reasons I can no longer recall it had to be thinned down in a manner very similar to a standard cast yoke. After thinning the clamp bolt torques dropped to more reasonable levels.

                                        Factory pinch bolt torques are quite low. For example the manual for the rotary engined Norton Interpol 2 that I have immediately to hand recommends 22 to 24 ft lb on the tube pinch bolts and 18 ft lb on the stem pinch bolt. Which seems fairly typical for modern alloy yokes. So clearly things are inherently fairly flexible.

                                        Back in the day, before (apparently) all the world and his wife had a CNC mill in the garage and the billet craze undreamed of, many aftermarket top yokes seemed to be basically a quite thin plate with slotted tubular extension affixed below to actually grip the fork tubes and stem. Which always seemed a bit scanty to me. But BMW used what appeared to be a chromed off-cut of 3 mm (or thereabouts) sheet steel as their top yoke on the R series airhead twins so presumably the engineering worked out.

                                        Clive

                                        #775587
                                        Ian Parkin
                                        Participant
                                          @ianparkin39383

                                          Clive

                                          i have a r100 with the thin steel top yoke the nuts hold the tubes in place…an iron head Harley has 35mm tubes but they have tapers on the end of the tubes that fit into the top yoke..alloy with matching tapers and held on with the nuts.

                                          these are for Ceriani type forks I don’t seem to be able to find a top yoke with handlebar clamps or so i can drill for risers..

                                          i suppose i could make new longer nuts and fit the tubes into a new top yoke say 20mm into 25mm thick material then use the nuts to hold the tubes in place in place?

                                          The only problem with is this theres only 1.2 mm for the shoulder

                                          IMG_7507

                                          #775593
                                          Ian Parkin
                                          Participant
                                            @ianparkin39383

                                            Another thought i could make a collar to fit under the top yoke say 20mm thick to clamp onto the tubes to stop the tubes pushing through the top yoke? Maybe 60mm dia with the hole slightly off centre to allow more room for the clamping bolt

                                            #775645
                                            David Senior
                                            Participant
                                              @davidsenior29320

                                              One way to get more flexibility for the clamp is to put a hacksaw cut in from the outside but opposite the clamping slot. It’s a technique I’ve used before for jigs that need to clamp. I have a photo of a crude one in 2″ square aluminium bar. It is an effective technique for reducing the stiffness of the clamp without removing too much strength.Clamp

                                              Might be interesting to work out how far to go – I suggest testing as you go.

                                              The central one would need 1 or 2 slots in outside at about 90 degrees to the main one.

                                              Dave

                                              #775653
                                              Clive Foster
                                              Participant
                                                @clivefoster55965

                                                Ian

                                                Given that what you have isn’t working it seems worth thinning out the middle in the hope that my experience transfers to you.

                                                Alternatively if you do fancy trying a simple BMW style flat plate top yoke I have vague memories of one of the non-accredited BMW dealers (Benrae?) offering an improvement kit based on a double thickness alloy plate. My recollection is that tis kit used cylindrical slugs screwed into the tops of the forks with the top end made as a smaller diameter spigot to fit in the holes in the top plate. The slug being tapped to take a smaller diameter bolt to hold things together. I imagine the screwed slug had narrow land for the fork tubes to screw up against and the replacement cap bolts were around M14 or M16 (fine?) so clamping took place on an area something like 5 mm wide. Presumably special bolts with built in annular flange to ensure that clamping loads were properly applied through the plate to the top of the slug. New centre nut too.

                                                That said I don’t recall being particularly impressed by the various improvement options on display in a nicely lit up glass cabinet. More influenced by marketing than engineering I felt. This was in the days when high quality, shiny anodising was somewhat rare and pretty components priced accordingly. Well outside my pocket for sure. 1984 (ish) I guess as I had my first K100RS at the time.

                                                It may, or may not, be relevant to note that aftermarket “flat billet” yoke suppliers cut the fork tube clamping part free of the main yoke rather than replicating the slot. This gives 180° or more of flexible wrap to clamp. The stem surround area is frequently shaped so as to give perhaps 90° each side of relatively narrow material to flex and clamp.

                                                Clive

                                                #775655
                                                Neil Wyatt
                                                Moderator
                                                  @neilwyatt

                                                  I think you have a decent chance of the slots being adequate if you try to emulate the original part by recessing the underneath of the yoke, the top can still be flat. I assume you have the right grade of alloy and awareness that this is safety critical should go without saying.

                                                  #775676
                                                  Vic
                                                  Participant
                                                    @vic
                                                    On Neil Wyatt Said:

                                                    I think you have a decent chance of the slots being adequate if you try to emulate the original part by recessing the underneath of the yoke, the top can still be flat. I assume you have the right grade of alloy and awareness that this is safety critical should go without saying.

                                                    All good points. Home made parts could perhaps invalidate insurance if the worst were to happen?

                                                    #775732
                                                    not done it yet
                                                    Participant
                                                      @notdoneityet

                                                      My take on it would be to make the yoke a tight press fit – and warm the yoke to actually assemble it as a sliding fit.  The amount of grip needed, by tightening the grub screw, would then be fairly minimal.

                                                      Thinning underneath, as Neil suggests, to something like the original would then be sufficient.  Torque on the grub screw would be the fairly normal value for the size of fixing.

                                                      As I see it, the length of the slot would be more important than the width.  The thickness of the outer edge, at the end of the slot, looks to be the more important factor to be considered.

                                                      Personally, I would stick with the drop bars – which likely clamp immediately below the yoke?

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