Stuart Steam Boiler Feed Pump – Cylinder Scrapped

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Stuart Steam Boiler Feed Pump – Cylinder Scrapped

Home Forums General Questions Stuart Steam Boiler Feed Pump – Cylinder Scrapped

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  • #771894
    David Deaville
    Participant
      @daviddeaville66164

      Hi,

      Having just managed to scrap the cylinder after many days work i’m looking for some advice.

      The steam passage ways that feed each end of the cylinder need to be drilled at 20 degrees to the bore, so I machined a very small flat spot where the holes are to start from and centre drilled them, they are only 1\16th diameter.

      The twist drill didn’t want to go down straight (even though i was “peck” drilling it) and wandered slightly into the direction of the cylinder bore until there was enough material around the drill bit to make it go straight, unfortunately when i came to drill the connecting holes, also 1\16th, they missed the 20 degree passage way, as it was not exactly where it was supposed to be, and came out in the cylinder bore itself, so the cylinder is now scrap.

      How should I of drilled these 1\16th 20 degree holes so that they go dead straight from the moment the drill starts ?

      Thanks

      Dave D.

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      #771896
      Michael Gilligan
      Participant
        @michaelgilligan61133

        Start your holes using a 3-flute milling cutter, to a depth of [say] 3/16” or more.

        MichaelG.

        #771904
        JasonB
        Moderator
          @jasonb

          A small ball nosed milling cutter or 3-flute cutter to get them started. Then a sharp stub length drill which is less flexible and if you can’t get the depth with that change to a standard jobber length.

          Alternative is to take the central two holes in the sides deeper, mill a 1/16 x 1/16 slot in the ends of the cylinder and then you can drill straight.

          pump 1

          #771948
          Paul Lousick
          Participant
            @paullousick59116

            This is not a Stuart pump but a similar design could be used.  All holes were drilled square to the faces and a slot milled at the end to transfer steam to the bore.

            Steam holes

            #771992
            David Deaville
            Participant
              @daviddeaville66164

              Some excellent ideas there from you all, I will try one of those approaches next time.

              Thanks

              Dave D.

              #772004
              duncan webster 1
              Participant
                @duncanwebster1

                Is there enough room to fit  liner to recover the cylinder? It need only be say 1mm thick, and can be loctited in. Then restart the holes with a slot drill.

                #772027
                noel shelley
                Participant
                  @noelshelley55608

                  I’m with Duncan, IF there’s room fit a thin liner and have another go. Pauls idea is good IF there’s room on the ends, with cylinder cover bolts/studs. Noel.

                  #772186
                  michael howarth 1
                  Participant
                    @michaelhowarth1

                    Just had an identical problem myself and as Duncan and Noel have suggested, got a length of K&S tubing as a + 0.032″ liner and stuck it in with Loctite 603. I like K&S because it is pretty much dead to size and so no need to do a rebore.

                    Mick

                    #772217
                    michael howarth 1
                    Participant
                      @michaelhowarth1

                      I should have mentioned in the above post that K&S tubing is brass. I use brass pistons with O rings which work fine but other piston materials/designs may not.

                      Mick

                      #772259
                      David Deaville
                      Participant
                        @daviddeaville66164

                        Unfortunately fitting a liner won’t help as the main steam passage way is already in the wrong place, there is no room left to drill another.

                         

                         

                        #772354
                        noel shelley
                        Participant
                          @noelshelley55608

                          Plug holes with brass or gunmetal rod and silver solder in, NOW have another go ? Noel.

                          #772696
                          michael howarth 1
                          Participant
                            @michaelhowarth1

                            I “inherited”a pair of part machined cylinders which have proved to be a bit of a nightmare in that the top of the cyinder bore is only 5/32″ from the valve face. This caused problems in drilling the 1/16″ steam passages. Sod’s law being the default in my workshop, I managed to drill 3 of the passages in each cylinder perfectly OK but the fourth passage in each cylinder breached the cylinder bore. It would probably been quicker to fashion two more cylinders from the solid but ever the optimist thought I would have a go at a rescue.

                            So at this stage I was probably in the same situation as David. The cylinder bores are 1/2″ so I reamed them out to 17/32″ (handy, that reamer) to take 17/32″ K&S tubing.Once reamed the steam passages were visible when squinting down the bore so carefully needle filed them to just over 1/16″. Then thinking ahead to the fitting of the K&S liner I drilled through the exhaust hole in the valve face (1/8″) straight through the cylinder and out through the bottom. In my thinking this was to allow for the addition of extra Loctite to seal the liner in whilst preserving the steam passages.  Then the liner was coated with Loctite 603 which is a bit less viscous than 638 and the liner pushed in by hand. At intervals I stuck a piece of nylon bristle up the steam passages to keep them clear of Loctite. Subsequent fiddling with a 1/16″ reamer cleared any remaining adhesive. Extra 603 was inserted into the 1/8″ holes and a surprising amount was absorbed.

                            At this stage I was reasonably satisfied that the liner and steam passages were sealed. After letting it set for a couple of days I tested the steam passages with soapy water and compressed air at 60 psi. I had to obviously ensure that there was no leakage between the steam passages feeding each end of the cylinder. There was not, although I have to admit the test was a bit rudimentary.

                            There is still a problem. Whilst I cannot discern a leakage between the fore an aft steam passages and the exhaust drilling at workshop temperatures, live steam at a nominal 60psi might be a different matter. At 60psi the steam temperature is of the order of c.150 deg.C. Loctite 603/638 has a working temperature of the same order although I am heartened by the advice that to dissociate components held together by these adhesives requires heating to a whopping 250 degC. Is this overkill?

                            Troubled by the thought that I might put everything together and then find a leakage, I pondered on. My main concern was whether the adhesive between the liner and steam passages would eventually fail. I wondered whether a liner in the steam passages would solve the problem. I found (and ordered) a length of 2mm od stainless steel capillary tubing with a wall thickness of 0.2mm which would give me an orifice of 1/16”. I have not yet received the tubing but I have successfully reamed out the steam passages to 2mm in anticipation.

                            As mentioned earlier I could have made two new cylinders from the solid in half the time I have spent messing about with these two but I do like experimenting and trying out unorthodox methods Purists will no doubt throw their hands up in horror and demand that I resign from the Forum and I would find it difficult to argue against that. Wish me luck. (New Year resolution : don’t take on any more part machined projects).

                            Mick

                             

                            #772899
                            duncan webster 1
                            Participant
                              @duncanwebster1

                              As I have said before, chap in our club has a loco with liners loctited in, it’s working pressure is 120psi with superheat. It gets a lot of use, no sign of the liners working loose. He didn’t even use the high temp loctite.

                               

                              #772929
                              michael howarth 1
                              Participant
                                @michaelhowarth1

                                I am a great fan of Loctite products which for me, have always performed well up to spec. However I am always wary of Sod’s Law as mentioned above. I have a question though, which would probably justify a thread of its own. Are all methacrylate type adhesives much the same, in the way that gas, water and electricity in our houses is the same whoever bills you for it?

                                Mick

                                #772941
                                Michael Gilligan
                                Participant
                                  @michaelgilligan61133
                                  On michael howarth 1 Said:

                                  I am a great fan of Loctite products which for me, have always performed well up to spec. However I am always wary of Sod’s Law as mentioned above. I have a question though, which would probably justify a thread of its own. Are all methacrylate type adhesives much the same, in the way that gas, water and electricity in our houses is the same whoever bills you for it?

                                  Mick

                                  Difficult one that ^^^ Mick

                                  I have always used either Loctite or PermaBond products … basically on a ‘gut level’ Cost vs Risk analysis: Both firms have excellent technical details available, and are innovators.

                                  Life is too short, and the cost of failure too great, to risk buying cheap knock-offs.

                                  MichaelG.

                                  https://www.permabond.com/about-us/

                                  .

                                  Edit: __ Just on a personal note:

                                  Bill Lees taught me most of what I know about this subject, when he delivered a three-day tutorial based on this little book:

                                  https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-662-11032-4

                                   

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