Southbend Change Gears

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Southbend Change Gears

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  • #762136
    Paul Lousick
    Participant
      @paullousick59116

      (This question has been asked hundreds of times on various sites and the answers are overwhelming)

      I am looking for a chart for the manual change gears on a 9″ Soutthbend (Boxford) lathe to cut metric threads.

      The lathe has an 8 tpi leadscrew and I have a 47/37 tooth transposing gear.

      Thread pitch required = 1.0mm, 1.25mm, 1.5mm, 2.0mm

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      #762138
      Speedy Builder5
      Participant
        @speedybuilder5

        Not sure about your transposing gears, page 75 from Know Your Lathe:-

        Page 75.1

        #762139
        Paul Lousick
        Participant
          @paullousick59116

          A 47/37 gear has a ratio of 1.27027 instead of 1.27000 which is good enough for most applications.

          This table is not in my Southbend manual and the text is a bit unclear but I think it refers to a gearbox position. My lathe does not have a gearbox.

          Thanks Speedy,

          #762140
          DC31k
          Participant
            @dc31k

            Two places to look, that would be as good as definitive, are the South Bend section of Practical Machinist forum and the South Bend literature available at vintagemachinery.org

            You can locate a pdf copy of ‘Know your lathe’, which will have a clear chart in it. I think the answer above is intended to point you in the correct direction rather than hand you something on a plate.

            #762152
            Gerard O’Toole
            Participant
              @gerardotoole60348

              The left chart that ‘Speedy Builder5 posted,, labelled fig. 127 shows the gears for lathes without the gearbox.

              Here it is again without the other chart or text

              Metric Threads wo Gearbox

               

              #762153
              Bazyle
              Participant
                @bazyle

                The main forum for SB/Boxford is on Groups.io
                https://groups.io/g/BoxfordLathe-UserGroup/topics

                47/37 is not in the mainstream of conversion gears that I have heard of but if you have one does it look like a home made custom one of more match the others. Which other gears do you have? Most lathes have sets that go in steps of 5 but the SB/Boxfords use even numbers.

                #762154
                Brian Wood
                Participant
                  @brianwood45127

                  Paul,

                  I don’t have a table for Southbend , but I have calculated a generic table applicable to ALL lathes with 8 tpi leadscrews. There are no transposing gears, but a 63T gear will be needed.

                  Gearing layout is as follows:-

                  A is the driver after the reversing cluster, B the first driven gear, linked to C the onward driver for D on the leadscrew

                  Required 1.00   A = 30, B = 60, C = 40, D = 63       Result= 1.008 mm

                  Required 1.25   A = 20, B = 55, C = 65, D = 60       Result= 1.251 mm

                  Required 1.50   A = 30, B = 50, C = 55, D = 70       Result= 1.497 mm

                  Required 1.75   A = 30, B = 35, C = 45, D = 70       Result= 1.749 mm

                  Required 2.00   A = 40, B = 50, C = 55, D = 70       Result= 1.998 mm

                  I hope this helps

                  Regards   Brian

                  #762157
                  SillyOldDuffer
                  Moderator
                    @sillyoldduffer

                    My brains are mildly frazzled by belly ache this morning, but unless I’m missing something, the Boxford table provided by Speedy and Gerard should both work simply for Paul by him substituting the 47/37 transposing gear for the conventional 127/100 pair shown on the Boxford plate, ringed in red below:

                    boxford

                    The advantage of a 127:100 pair is that is gives a perfect conversion to 25.4mm per inch.  The disadvantage is the need for two whacking big gears, and many lathes don’t have enough room on the banjo for them.  Their need to cut metric threads is often achieved, somewhat less accurately, with a 63 toothed gear, and a different table.

                    Paul has a 47:37 transposing gear, which is another way of approximating metric:  25.40540541mm to the inch.   Plenty good enough for cutting short threads, but think twice before making a long accurate thread.

                    Bottom line, what Paul needs is achieved simply by substituting his 47:37 transposing gear for the 127:100 transposing pair shown on the Boxford plate.  As both transpositions produce nearly the same ratio, the Stud, Idler and Screw gear set-ups tabulated on the left of the Boxford plate should produce the advertised pitches.

                    The easy way is for Paul to prove I’m right, or not, is to try it.  With a fine felt-tip pen in the tool post, write a helix on a suitably big diameter rod with the lathe, and confirm several pitches are drawn as per Boxford table by measuring them with a caliper.   If all looks OK, cut a real thread and check that.

                    Dave

                     

                     

                    #762167
                    mark smith 20
                    Participant
                      @marksmith20

                      I have a southbend 9A(with gearbox) , i have cut metric threads a few times  for short thread  lengths of around 1″,worked fine . I dont have the 127/100 gear  but just used other combinations to give the least error.

                      My question is for the B and C models without the gearbox do these combinations work the same or not at all ??

                      For instance ive just threaded M1.5 by simply using a 54 tooth gear as the stud gear and an 80 tooth on the end of the gearbox. Setting the gearbox to 32 TPI.

                      I have a spreadsheet program off someone  on one  of the American forums that calculates the gear combinations and  pitch errors, but forgot how it works.

                       

                      #762168
                      Michael Gilligan
                      Participant
                        @michaelgilligan61133

                        Looks good to me, Dave

                        MichaelG.IMG_0243

                        #762169
                        DC31k
                        Participant
                          @dc31k

                          I do not know if this is a helpful way to view the problem or not:

                          The 37/47 gear turns his 8 tpi (3.175mm) leadscrew into a 2.5mm pitch leadscrew.

                          25.4/8 = 254/80 = 127/40. 127/40 x 37/47 = 4699/1880. 4700/1880 = 5/2.

                          The error is 1 part in 4700, which puts it at no. 18 on Martin Cleeve’s list, so I am not sure which stream of conversion gears it is not a main part of.

                          Once you have that basic conversion, the rest is simple – you want 1mm pitch, you add gears making a 2:5 ratio.

                          You want 1.25mm pitch, you add gears making a 1:2 ratio.

                          Hence, a change gear table for a machine with a 2.5mm pitch leadscrew would furnish all the other ratios.

                          We should note that the Boxford gears proceed ‘by fours’. The procession of standard South Bend gears would be a good thing to establish before making any decision on what table to follow.

                          #762170
                          Grindstone Cowboy
                          Participant
                            @grindstonecowboy

                            As an alternative, or for conformation of the charts shown above, I suggest taking a look at the “Ride the Gear Train” program written by Evan Lewis, a very active member of the Southbend/Boxford forum. I would expect the results to be the same as Brian’s, however.

                            You will be able to enter which gears you have, including any compound gears, choose wwhat percentage error is acceptable (including no error, but with the 47:37 rather than 127:100 you may not be able to achieve perfection).

                            Evan is always happy to help if you contact him via the forum with any questions.

                            Rob

                            Links to https://ridethegeartrain.com/

                            #762177
                            peak4
                            Participant
                              @peak4

                              Alternative program here too
                              https://www.imagesalad.com/lathenovice/lathegears/lathegears.html

                              Myford gear charts should work too

                              Bill

                              #762190
                              Russell Eberhardt
                              Participant
                                @russelleberhardt48058

                                Another useful program is NthreadsP which can be downloaded from the lathes.co.uk website here:

                                http://www.lathes.co.uk/threading/nthreadp.zip

                                You just load your list of change gears, tell it what pitch you want and it will find the best combination for you and calculate the error. It is a Windows program but I find it runs well on Linux using Wine.

                                Russell

                                #762200
                                Michael Gilligan
                                Participant
                                  @michaelgilligan61133
                                  On DC31k Said:
                                  I do not know if this is a helpful way to view the problem or not:The 37/47 gear turns his 8 tpi (3.175mm) leadscrew into a 2.5mm pitch leadscrew.

                                  […]

                                  May I just say … YES that is an extremely helpful way to view the problem; because it cuts-through all the mental juggling that typically accompanies working with an unfamiliar system.

                                  MichaelG.

                                  #762249
                                  Paul Lousick
                                  Participant
                                    @paullousick59116

                                    Thank you gentlemen (sorry, politically correct gentle persons) for your assistance.

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