This may help

https://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g0704_m.pdf.

There is no oil reservoir for the gears. If metal, the best  I could do is get a lolly stick and try to smear some molyslip on such gears as was able to reach through the little hole in the headstock. Take off the cover to access the upper gears from the motor. All quite pointless as any lubricant you put on will be flung off in any case.

This class of mill is only intended to have a few hundred hours of use before failure of some sort. The real problem for the Wartco flavour WM16 is that the commonly available belt drive conversion is not possible to implement (grinds teeth in rage and frustration).

Before using, get yourself a good set of ear defenders.

I find it especially sad that so many of these machines, and lathes, are sold accompanied by the most appalling manuals. So often I have read Forum answers that in every case suggest Grizzly in the States have far better machine manuals for what seem to be identical products.

Why is it that our suppliers fail so dismally in this respect? Furthermore, in this case from the answers above, it seems that lifetime is expected to be short; a case of planned failure that is grossly unfair on the buyer. So much for the New World.

What do others think?

Brian

The populous demands ‘cheap’.

The manufacturers respond and produce ‘cheap’.

So what becomes commonly available is ‘cheap’ where issues of quality, longevity, ease of use etc are of decreasing relevance.

I think it was Lathejack who posted a long and dreadful story, with pictures, on the old forum to document his experience with a new Warco lathe. This was a geared head machine of about Colchester capacity.

I don’t now recall what prompted his work but briefly the headstock was rusty within, there was foundry sand in the joint sealing the lid and his courage failed when it came to looking into the screw cutting gearbox. He replaced expensive imported bearings that had been wrecked and so on.

It was a salutary story. I would have sent it back but what might have been supplied instead.

The buying public has become accustomed to this sort of thing now, I deplore it.

Brian

….There is no metal-on-metal of the gears on my mill; metal gears couple with plastic…..

A frequent cause of woe for WM18 owners. if posts on various on- line fora are to be believed.

Okay, I admit to being somewhat  bitter and twisted about my WM16 due to its various shortcomings. At the time the fateful decision was made, the SX3 was about 30% more, so now I can repent at leisure!

Sooner or later, the 16 will shatter a spindle / intermediate gear or burn out a board or motor, at which time it will be disposed of as not worth the time and cost to repair (as far as I am concerned). Until then I am stuck with it.

I take your point Jason. I think Martin summed it up nicely earlier on, the public expects cheap and cheap now seems to be the norm. And that is the problem, the market is saturated with cheap, there is little choice except for those of us who try and sniff out bargains in old iron.

I am one of those and expect to have to fix it, but I do have my limits. I will not countenance a basket case as that becomes a money pit; it is a question of skill and judgement to find rare gold in the dross. Thus far those instincts have been in my favour. The one machine I built was my Mk 2 Dore Westbury mill and I put a lot of care into that. That has given excellent  service since commissioning over 30 years ago.

I still believe in backing my judgement.

Brian

As a WM18 owner, I’m surprised by the negative comments.  Are these from actual owners, or just hearsay from an internet echo chamber, perhaps one with racist motives?

Greasing the gears is easy, and doesn’t have to be done very often.  I squirt White lithium in from a can periodically with the mill turning slowly in both high and low gear.  The oil points are obvious, as with any machine just inject a few drops of oil into them at the start of each session.

Don’t understand the reference to ear defenders!  Though my mill isn’t quiet, it’s not loud either.

Not sure what Peter expects of the manual.   Even those written for much more expensive machines tend to be terse.  Thing is a milling machine is a tool, not a consumer product.  It’s expected the owner already knows a bit.   Machinist skills can’t be learned from a pamphlet supplied with the machine.   Mills are actually rather simple, the hard part is learning how to drive them properly.  To do that there’s a great deal to know about materials, cutters, feed-rate, rpm, work-holding, measuring, technique, and how to get the best out of a particular machine.

For what it’s worth I think the two most common beginner mistakes are:

• pussy-footing, taking very light cuts that quickly blunt the cutter by rubbing the edge.
• angry-gorilla, taking heavier cuts than a relatively delicate hobby machine is up to.  Clues the owner is heavy handed include damaged gears, blown electronics, and burned out motors. Especially if they are repeat offenders!  Perhaps this is a particular issue for ex-industrial machinists, who, spoiled rotten on big machines paid for by their employer, fail to realise that a hobby machine costing less than 10% of the industrial equivalent isn’t designed for production rate cutting!   If so, their previous experience of high-speed metal removal is dangerous because hobby gear has to be treated with respect.  Forget wham-bam thank you ma’am and treat her like a lady.   Not difficult, but getting good results without tears and tantrums requires patience.

Trouble with the manuals supplied with machine tools is by the time you’ve got your head half round the new toy they’re not worth reading.  This includes the better American ones!   A collection of other books fill in the gaps – a few thousand pages, with advice looked up as needed rather than read like a novel.  YouTube sampled with care due to quality shortcomings, and ideally a mentor who knows about hobby machines.  Take your time, make a few things, and ask here if stuff doesn’t work as expected.

Dave

On 13 October 2024 at 15:41 Brian Wood Said:

I find it especially sad that so many of these machines, and lathes, are sold accompanied by the most appalling manuals. So often I have read Forum answers that in every case suggest Grizzly in the States have far better machine manuals for what seem to be identical products.

Why is it that our suppliers fail so dismally in this respect? Furthermore, in this case from the answers above, it seems that lifetime is expected to be short; a case of planned failure that is grossly unfair on the buyer. So much for the New World.

What do others think?

Brian

Grizzly operation is big enough to write their own manuals, UK supplied ones are written in China and badged the same way the machines are.

So I assume that the spindle drive extension on the WM12 (the bit upon which the perforated speed plate sits that you can just see above the pulley) is all  one unit down past the top bearing?

On the WM 16 (or at least on my version ) the part above the bearing supporting the speed plate is just a separate bush pressed into the spindle drive extension exactly at the top bearing with about 1/2mm of support metal. OK to carry the speed plate but certainly incapable of taking the drive from the motor. So belt drive retro fit not possible.

And as you say, if you are fortunate enough to be able to implement a belt conversion, the ear shattering noise of two sets of steel gears hammering against each other 2500 times a minute is gone as has the associated vibration. The mill is much more pleasant to use and finishes are better.

I assume the use of plastic gears in the train seen in WM18 was an attempt to solve the noise problem by introducing a potential failure issue instead.  Top marks design team!

Advice to anyone considering this class of mill, make sure you get the belt drive version!

On 14 October 2024 at 08:56 Martin of Wick Said:

 

Advice to anyone considering this class of mill, make sure you get the belt drive version!

I would concur that.  “Touch wood”, my WM16B hobby machine has been OK.  I hope that’s not put the kiss of death on it.  Just treat them with a little respect.

Do take especial note of page 11, of the grizzly manual.

Slow speed means reduced cooling.  I^2R losses increase as current increases.  It is easy to overload the machine with heavy cuts at low motor speed – leading to motor and/or control/power supply board failure.

A very common failure mode of many of these cheaper chinese drives.  You have been warned!

Well I suppose noise might be a matter of perception (and I have the ear defenders for when it gets bad!).

On my versions of the 16 all gears are metal. At any speed over 1000 rpm, the top helical gear emits a howl like an F1 car being run up to full chat, accompanied by the grinding clatter of the straight cut gears driving the spindle.

It is what it is, a budget tool, and there is no easy solution or remedial other than to replace with something better.