Really stretches the definition of mini-lathe about as far as it can go.

The big bore makes it a seriously interesting concept but much of the engineering looks somewhat incoherent. What appears to be a standard mini lathe topside “built up in the sand” with a thick block underneath to bring it to centre height really doesn’t look rigid enough. Saddle looks way skinny too for a machine of near SouthBend size.

Using simple electronic control to deliver enough speed variation from a motor of only 1,100 W seems to guarantee serious shortage of oomph at lower revs.

Likely to be very frustrating to use in a “boy set to do a mans job” fashion.

Shame really because the concept is really nice. Most likely let down by attempting to reach an unfeasibly low price point.

Were I the designer I’d beef up saddle and topside, extend tailstock travel, add a stepper motor for electronic lead screw and cross feed drive and fit a two speed gearbox along with back gear. Not forgetting a four jaw chuck in the box too.

Then try to sell it for £1,400 or so and be hugely disappointed by how few customers I got!

Clive

Lee

At 70 years of age no chance of me ever putting a product out. But if I did it would be a CNC system that works properly, easily and quickly in the modern world. Think 3D printing style, not G-code!

Concerning that lathe I do have some relevant experience of the potential issues involved from that sort of enlargement.

Way back I traded up my second SouthBend 9″ lathe, a model A, for a late SouthBend Heavy 10 toolroom version with big bore spindle and cam lock chuck fittings. For all practical purposes the Heavy 10 simply increased the swing by 1″ with a bigger bore and beefed up headstock but everything else was pretty much the same size as the 9″. Excellent on lighter work but just not strong enough to handle the cuts needed on bigger jobs.

Frustrating.

The lathe you linked to has even more enlargement relative to the basic source design size so the issues will be compounded.

The Heavy 10 got swopped for a Smart & Brown 1024 which is pretty much a cut down bigger lathe retaining the massive saddle, topside et al. Saddle and slides are actually bigger than on my P&W Model B 12″ x 30″ which itself is actually almost 14″ swing and has a well earned reputation for both accuracy and the ability to take heavy cuts.

Having way too much strength in saddle and slides is liberating.

Clive

On 11 October 2024 at 13:48 Lee Cooper Said:

one guy had his open and the headstock has a taper bearing at one end and a standard at the other.

I think my SC4 lathe has the same bearing arrangement. Not given me any cause for concern

jimb

I would think that the head bearings would be the best part of the lathe, definitely not plain type.

Wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole. As said above the vertical stretch on standard narrow bed is not going to work well.

Have a look at the Sieg SC4 at 1200 Quid from Arc Eurotrade. A much more solid and usable machine with good after sales back up.

Amazon returns policy is not going to cover a machine that works but works poorly due to inherent design weaknesses. Caveat emptor.

Also, don’t forget to check the motor OUTPUT.  That 1.1kW very likely refers to power input, so the output may be only half that!  Chinese units are often hyped to appear as high as possibly possible and worded to appear impressive to anyone that is scammed by them.

On 11 October 2024 at 19:57 old mart Said:

I would think that the head bearings would be the best part of the lathe, definitely not plain type.

Don’t knock plan bearings. The old SouthBend 9″ lathes which had simple but deceptively sophisticated plain bearings bored directly in the headstock were renowned for long life and accuracy. My first one had no detectable headstock wear despite having done enough work to wear the feed drive key down not about 1/4 of its original width. The Heavy 10 with its shim adjusted bronze bushes was no slouch either when its came to strength, accuracy and long life. Then there were the high speed plain bearing Holbrook C machines built for diamond turning and similar super precision jobs. When the objective is optical surface finish you need the best bearings that can be had.

In our home shop world the issue has always been affordability. High quality plain bearings are relatively complicated and expensive to make, consider the many taper style adjustment systems used on the machines we couldn’t dream of affording new, so once decent roller bearings could be gotten off the shelf thats the obvious way to go. Lubrication is an issue too. For best results at any sort of surface speed plain bearings need proper pump fed lubrication supplying decent clean oil. On bigger machines the eye watering cost of sophisticated, matched assembly Gamet and similar high end roller bearings was still considered cheaper and more reliable than trying to do super precision plain ones on the assembly line.

These days the tier 1 automotive suppliers make plain bearings of more than adequate quality and life for very low prices. But you need the pump and filter to use them.

My big criticism of our Asian suppliers is that the machines they deliver are conceptually way out of date. They haven’t moved on from the original “leverage the supply chain to make SouthBend, Myford, Boxford, Bantam style machines cheaper”. Nice in many ways but classic design for sales rather than proper machine tool engineering development and not going anywhere. Doomed to extinction in a world with carbide inserts, 3D CAD and 3D printing. But thats a story for another thread.

Clive

Nothing racist about pointing out poor quality or otherwise of goods manufactured in a specific country. Nothing to do with the race of the people working in or running the factories.

In many cases in the hobby market, it is the local (non-Chinese) importer/distributor who tells the factory what to make, or chooses which quality-level of product they want to slap their badge on.

But there are well documented problems with quality control in Chinese factories. Whole books have been written on the problem, which has come to be known widely as “quality fade”. ( LINK ) (Scroll down to read the summary)

It is not down to a matter of race, but rather of Chinese Communist party politics where corruption is endemic and huge pressures are put on factories to meet quotas and produce short-term profits. Nobody knows if they will be in business next year because the latest political purge may have removed their party mentor who is vital to getting party permission to run a business or factory. So they are focussed on making money while they are able to and the future be damned.

Meanwhile, the Chinese machine tool manufacturers in democratic Taiwan are recognised as among the world’s best. Their lathes and mills sell for ten times what the mainland Communist Chinese machines cost.

On 15 October 2024 at 07:29 Diogenes Said:

On 13 October 2024 at 19:40 not done it yet said:

… ..Compressors were always quoted FAD until the chinese realised they could con the buyers by issuing higher numbers for less money.

Same with chinese heaters – cheap 8kW diesel air heaters do not exist and even the touted 5kW versions likely deliver only a tad ove 4kW.  And so it goes on….dupe the ‘less well informed’ buyers.

Sorry NDIY, but that’s just nonsense – reputable industrial suppliers have always quoted FAD, but ‘domestic’ / ‘hobby’ outlets such as DIY store chains and ‘Discount Tool Warehouses’  quoted displacement figures for compressors and input figures for power machinery for as long as I can remember..

IIRC things were so bad by the early 1980’s that there was an ‘air’ company (from, maybe ?Sheffield?) who were able to use ‘full disclosure’ of spec for home-gamers as a Unique Selling Point, closely followed of course by Axminster, who really promoted their ‘transparency’ as a marketing tool that proved hugely successful – both of these companies sold imported machinery.

Why perpetuate conspiracy theory couched in such such offensively racist terms?

 

Maybe those reputable importers did a good job in being transparent, but for “as long as I can remember”, which may be less in this field, it has been the cheap chinese imports that were hyped.  My ‘old iron’ compound compressor was bought second hand from a farm sale about 30 years ago and is still going fine.  A genuine cast iron twin cylinder (compound) pump with 3HP motor, <u>delivering</u> around 10cfm.

The chinese can make very good products, but the cheap end (often aimed at hobbyists) leaves a lot to be desired where complete truthfulness of the product is concerned.  They pay (in one way or another) for good reviews.  They exaggerate the capabilities.  They provide misleading data (eg motor output power) – Arceuro do provide power output values, but I expect some outlets don’t do this for Sieg machines.

I have cheap chinese diesel heaters.  8kW versions simply cannot exist but are advertised as such (the pumps are insufficient and the fan speeds are already at maximum, even for the claimed 5kW versions).

Cheap chinese bearings were ‘outed’ by John (doubleboost) in one of his earlier videos (headed ‘chinese shite’ IIRCC).

I have cheap (imported from China) dehumidifiers.  They are rubbish for durability.  ‘Chicken fat” lubricants was the most common issue, leading to failed drives or fans.

I once bought a MT2 adapter which was not quite MT2.   Ban good carp.

I recently bought one battery cell balancer.  It did not work.  I needed 7, so I will try a better supplier – not directly from China!

Bangood, Vevor and Temu, among others, are a lottery where quality and specification adherence is concerned.

I avoid cheap chinese, unless I am able to fix it or can accept the shortfalls.

Good quality costs.  I remember one place I worked sent two containers back to China because the contents failed the quality required and the QA checks before being accepted.  Every consignment, <u>afterwards</u>, exceeded the quality inspections on arrival.  The Chinese supplier clearly could supply good quality but tried, initially, to get away with sub-standard products.  These were mostly electronic parts for electricity meters, BTW.

I’ve had a lot of experience with chinese products and (mostly) know how to decide on whether to purchase or not.  One reason why I have purchased most of my hobby items from Arceutotrade.  Don’t even go to Indian quality, either.  I know a bit about some of their (dangerous) practices in the past.