Chinese Mini-Lathes/Mills – DC Motor Controllers

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Chinese Mini-Lathes/Mills – DC Motor Controllers

Home Forums Help and Assistance! (Offered or Wanted) Chinese Mini-Lathes/Mills – DC Motor Controllers

Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)
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  • #758091
    Andre ROUSSEAU
    Participant
      @andrerousseau66124

      Experienced a complete failure of the DC motor-controller of your Chinese-made mini-lathe/mill? …..what to do? NO problem! Get a hold of “SILICON CHIP” magazine, July & August 2024 issues wherein you will find a construction article for a 100% compatible motor controller, indeed, it was designed specifically for this type of motor.

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      #758095
      Michael Gilligan
      Participant
        @michaelgilligan61133

        Very useful reference, Andre !

        … I am also very impressed by the Search facility on the magazine’s page

        https://www.siliconchip.com.au/Articles/ContentsSearch

        MichaelG.

        #758171
        John Haine
        Participant
          @johnhaine32865

          Doesn’t seem to a schematic so hard to assess whether it would be any more robust.  Better I think to buy a KBE unit, the one on my little mill seems to be bulletproof (so far!…)

          #758348
          Stuart Smith 5
          Participant
            @stuartsmith5

            The circuit diagram is on pages 48 and 49 of the July edition. It isn’t a simple circuit!

            #758367
            John Haine
            Participant
              @johnhaine32865

              Doesn’t seem possible without paying?

              #758395
              Emgee
              Participant
                @emgee
                #758415
                John Haine
                Participant
                  @johnhaine32865

                  Thanks, but that goes to the first two pages but it does not seem possible to see subsequent ones – you just get a “preview” message and an invitation to purchase the issue or subscribe?

                  #758422
                  Michael Gilligan
                  Participant
                    @michaelgilligan61133

                    Seems reasonable, John … it’s presumably an active publisher running a business.

                    MichaelG.

                    #758436
                    John Haine
                    Participant
                      @johnhaine32865

                      Absolutely agreed Michael. Just makes it hard to judge whether this might be better than the originals.  Lower risk would be a proper industrial controller and they aren’t that expensive.

                      #758461
                      Robert Atkinson 2
                      Participant
                        @robertatkinson2

                        Having looked at the snippet of available information the controller looks unusual. Quite complex with both current and back-EMF feedback. Looking at the image of the PCB I’m a little concerned that it needs 6 multi-turn pre-set potentiometer adjustments….

                        Robert.

                        #760728
                        Andre ROUSSEAU
                        Participant
                          @andrerousseau66124

                          It actually IS a simple circuit. You’ve lost sight of the objective: maintaining accurate speed control UNDER LOAD. If you want complicated then search out those that incorporate micro-controllers. The article fully explains the circuit operation. Piece of cake!

                          #760731
                          Robert Atkinson 2
                          Participant
                            @robertatkinson2

                            But accurate speed control is not required by a lathe…
                            Can anyone who has read the full article tell me what the 5 multiturn pots are for and how thay are adjusted?
                            The fact that they have used a circuit that “provides the same pulsating DC voltage…” makes me wonder. That means the motor will have at least some 100Hz torque ripple. Any DC motor will be quieter and smoother on DC or high frequency PWM DC than unsmothed rectified AC.

                            Robert.

                            #760742
                            Stuart Smith 5
                            Participant
                              @stuartsmith5

                              Robert

                              I have access to the article but have only skimmed through it. It does look like the output is not true dc but a pulse width modulated version of the full wave rectified mains (ie does not have smoothing capacitors). The setting up of the various pots is detailed in the article. It uses an IBGT for the output.

                              Stuart

                              #761047
                              Andre ROUSSEAU
                              Participant
                                @andrerousseau66124

                                “…accurate sped control not required for a lathe…?? Nonsense! See what happens if your spindle speed drops in the middle of parting-off a high-alloy steel component….. or the surface finish of a large diameter workpiece during a facing cut of an alloy steel. After all, the designers of the original motor controller included closed-loop control for this same purpose – guess they didn’t know much about lathes then!

                                #761051
                                Robert Atkinson 2
                                Participant
                                  @robertatkinson2

                                  Being pedantic perhaps but I still maintain ACCURATE speed control is not required. What is required is CONSISTENT speed under varying load. A vairiation of +- 10 or even 20% will not make any sigificant difference on a lathe This can easilly be done with a brushed DC motor with load compensation. Speed drop under load is more likely to be due to a lack of motor power.
                                  I’d also question your “100% compatible” comment. This design is not specific to mini lathes and is not a “plug and play” replacement for a mini-lathe PCB. It is an electronics project.

                                  Robert.

                                  #761963
                                  Andre ROUSSEAU
                                  Participant
                                    @andrerousseau66124

                                    Hi Robert, not quite sure why you’re putting the capitalised emphasis on ‘accurate’ and ‘consistent’; you appear not to have read my prior post in which I clearly and un-ambiguously stated, ..”maintaining accurate speed control UNDER LOAD” (Yes, capitalised!). The standard Chinese lathe motor is not spectacularly powerful but rather than this being the cause it is more appropriate that it’s a case of an operator pushing the task beyond the capability of the machine. Usually, the machine gets blamed instead of the guy in the mirror. Furthermore, I don’t recall saying anywhere or making a single reference to this circuit being a “plug-and-play” replacement for a mini-lathe PCB. By return reply, could you please provide me the screenshot where you can demonstrate I made such a claim, I would be most interested to see it. You also appear not to have ACTUALLY read the whole article: I have. You may be assured that the circuit is entirely based on the original lathe DC motor controller as used on Chinese small machine tools, i.e. it IS 100% compatible with the range of brushed DC motors used in these machine tools. Furthermore, the designer of the controller, John Clarke is one of the most qualified and experienced electronics designers out there and has multiple motor-controllers and power control designs to his credit, far too many to count.

                                    #761980
                                    SillyOldDuffer
                                    Moderator
                                      @sillyoldduffer
                                      On Andre ROUSSEAU Said:

                                      … Furthermore, I don’t recall saying anywhere or making a single reference to this circuit being a “plug-and-play” replacement for a mini-lathe PCB. By return reply, could you please provide me the screenshot where you can demonstrate I made such a claim, I would be most interested to see it. …

                                      Well, Andre your opening post says, my bold: “Experienced a complete failure of the DC motor-controller of your Chinese-made mini-lathe/mill? …..what to do? NO problem! Get a hold of “SILICON CHIP” magazine, July & August 2024 issues wherein you will find a construction article for a 100% compatible motor controller, indeed, it was designed specifically for this type of motor.”

                                      With respect, though this doesn’t actually use the words ‘plug and play’, I read it that way.  It’s a hazard of the internet: quite a few of my posts are misunderstood!

                                      Where I agree with Robert is that the article describes an electronics project, not an easy way of replacing a burnt out board.   The big problem with it as a practical answer is cost.  An amateur will probably have to buy all the components retail and that makes a DIY build very expensive compared with buying a mass-production controller.   Especially if he has to have the PCB made, and doesn’t have the electronics wherewithal needed to assemble, test and debug it.

                                      I was interested to read the article and resulting comments, but no way would I make one – even though I could.

                                      Dave

                                      Dave

                                       

                                      #761982
                                      Robert Atkinson 2
                                      Participant
                                        @robertatkinson2

                                        Hi Andre,

                                        You said “Experienced a complete failure of the DC motor-controller of your Chinese-made mini-lathe/mill? and “a 100% compatible motor controller”. To me this imples that it is 100% compatible with a mini-lathe i.e just fit it in place of the original PCB. From the freely available part of the article this is clearly not the case. Even motor reversing is “optional”. It does not mention lathes just treadmill motors. It’s a general purpose design that requires some skill to assemble and adjust. The earlier article specfically states that it is not for the inexperienced:
                                        Screenshot 2024-10-30 083832
                                        The designer appears to be a “staff” author with the magazine and it’s predecessor for 40 years. He has a Bachelor of Engineering degree. I can’t see how this makes him “one of the most qualified and experienced electronics designers out there”. He does seem to have designed a lot of motor speed controllers. About 15 including revisions and updates. So have I but most of mine where part of commercial projects so had to work reliably and meet safety and EMC requirements. I’m not saying his arn’t reliable or safe but it isvery different writing a article to producing a product.

                                        Robert.

                                        #763180
                                        Andre ROUSSEAU
                                        Participant
                                          @andrerousseau66124

                                          I think you ned to grow up a bit mate. First-off, you might try putting your glasses on: My initial post CLEARLY stated 100% compatibilty with the electric motor. Where EXACTLY did I make a single reference to being compatible with the machine tool’s control box?? Furthermore you seem incapable of getting your facts straight; the article DOES clearly and unambiguously state that it is for use with machine tool motors. Let me give you some fatherly advice sonny, when you place statements in quotation marks you are putting words in my mouth in order to make a back-handedly grasping attempt to win a pedantic argument. Pathetic, and utterly childish. The only thing you accomplish by using such a cowardly low-ball tactic is to start a real argument so you’ll just have to suck up the confrontation that results. I suspect I have a few more grey hairs on my head than yours so you might want to show a bit of damn respect as well.

                                          As for your for your ignorant and dismissive comments regarding John Clarke’s design ability you don’t appear to understand that SILICON CHIP sells construction kits for all these designs and they do so globally, probably in far greater numbers than the controllers you claim to design so you may be assured they are of more than a professional commercial standard.

                                          The thing that makes your overall commentary and attitude so offensive is that you clearly aren’t even interested in using this controller so instead of pouring your toxic graffiti over someone’s post who I might add was only attempting to be of assistance to those in need of help you should just ‘click-off’ and find some other post to put people off. Sadly, in this case the people you put off are those who might find such a project to be of value in extending their complement of workshop skills.

                                          #763181
                                          Joseph Noci 1
                                          Participant
                                            @josephnoci1

                                            Folk who know me know I don’t post much these days – I do peruse the site actively though..

                                            There is NO place on this forum for Andre and his vitriolic tantrums and downright insulting childishness.

                                            Ban him!

                                            Joe

                                            #763183
                                            Andre ROUSSEAU
                                            Participant
                                              @andrerousseau66124

                                              I don’t do tantrums pal, I just say it like it is because I have something called PRINCIPLES. Do you seriously think I’m just going to haplessly stand by and allow someone to besmirch my integrity by placing words in my mouth that I did not say?? No way am I going to lay down on the ground while someone wipes his feet on me. If you can’t stand the heat then get out of the kitchen. If offends your delicate sensitivities so much then maybe you should just move on to another post with calming pastel shades.

                                              #763185
                                              Joseph Noci 1
                                              Participant
                                                @josephnoci1

                                                Meds not working anymore Andre?

                                                Code Of Conduct
                                                We’re a friendly community and we welcome new members and have a laugh at the same time as having lively debates. The forum is a resource for all members and to keep it a useful and friendly place forum users have suggested some guidelines:

                                                Please refrain from:

                                                Swearing. It can be offensive and it can also mean that some members can’t use the site from work. If you really must use swear words please use asterisks.

                                                Being abusive or making personal attacks. If you wouldn’t say something to someone’s face then it doesn’t belong on the forum.

                                                #763190
                                                derek hall 1
                                                Participant
                                                  @derekhall1
                                                  On Joseph Noci 1 Said:

                                                  Meds not working anymore Andre?

                                                  Code Of Conduct
                                                  We’re a friendly community and we welcome new members and have a laugh at the same time as having lively debates. The forum is a resource for all members and to keep it a useful and friendly place forum users have suggested some guidelines:

                                                  Please refrain from:

                                                  Swearing. It can be offensive and it can also mean that some members can’t use the site from work. If you really must use swear words please use asterisks.

                                                  Being abusive or making personal attacks. If you wouldn’t say something to someone’s face then it doesn’t belong on the forum.

                                                  Thanks Joe for the reminder (thumbs up)

                                                  This thread is becoming very vitriolic and personal. I have not seen anything quite like this on this forom for a while.

                                                  Can I remind us “practical people” on here, that there is more than one solution to an engineering problem?

                                                  #763197
                                                  noel shelley
                                                  Participant
                                                    @noelshelley55608

                                                    Gentlemen Please, enough ! That we all have our own opinions is fine but there is no need to allow things to get out of hand as this post has. Agree to differ and let the matter rest. Noel.

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