Tapered gib problem

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Tapered gib problem

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  • #755771
    Sonic Escape
    Participant
      @sonicescape38234

      I think I made a big mistake with my mill. It has tapered gibs that can be adjusted at both ends with screws. For X axis I forgot to mount the screws. Yesterday I was milling something and the handwheel was turning harder and harder. Instead of stopping I continued to turn it because I was close to finish. Now the X axis is completely blocked.

      I added the screw but it is not able to push back the gib. I tried to push the gib back with a hammer and a long piece of steel but is too stuck. Also I don’t want to hit it too hard.

      As a last resort with the screw pressing the gib I tried again to turn the handwheel. The gib pushed the top of the screw and bent it a little. Now I can’t unscrew it and I’m afraid it will snap if I try harder. That would be even worst!

      I’m running out of ideas. Any advice is welcomed!

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      #755802
      Diogenes
      Participant
        @diogenes

        That looks like it could be the ‘thin’ end ?

        – if that is so, and the strip is bending the screw here, you are trying to take it off the wrong way and jamming it harder; take the other screw (the far end) out and try to run the saddle / table off the ‘small’ end of the gib towards the camera.

        – if that is the ‘thick’ end, then you need to remove that screw and drive the saddle/table away from the camera.

        Make sure you remove any lock screws for this axis, just in case they are fouling the back of the strip.!

        #755812
        Tony Pratt 1
        Participant
          @tonypratt1

          As per Diogenes above and don’t panic! Spend a bit of time making sure you know what you are doing.
          Tony

          #755847
          Sonic Escape
          Participant
            @sonicescape38234

            The saddle is completely jammed. I don’t want to force the handwheel. It doesn’t turn at all and I don’t know how solid is the nut. But I found a piece of flat steel that is perfect for pushing the gib. I fixed it with two c-clamps so it doesn’t bend when I hit it with the hammer. In this way finally I was able to remove the gib!

            The bent lock screw was still there and even with the largest screwdriver it doesn’t rotate. But I was able to straighten it with the hammer. Just enough to remove it.

            I was worried that it might be a more serious issue. And using the hammer on a precision machine didn’t feel right. But in the end the problem was solved.

            #755863
            Diogenes
            Participant
              @diogenes

              👍

               

               

              #755875
              Andrew Crow
              Participant
                @andrewcrow91475

                When you have cleaned everything and are ready to refit the gib strip disconnect the leadscrew so you can move the slide by hand and adjust until you get a smooth movement without any play. Make sure the two adjusting screws are tight to prevent any further movement then re-fit the leadscrew.

                #755895
                Clive Foster
                Participant
                  @clivefoster55965

                  +1 for Andrews advice.

                  Don’t forget to lightly oil the back side and top surface of the taper gib as well as the working surfaces. It needs to slide easily in its recess which generally is not as well finished as the working surfaces, most especially so on an “affordable” machine, so lubrication is a great help to getting things just so.

                  Lots of pushing back and forth to get the gib really well settled. But then it won’t need attention for years. If ever! So it’s well worth putting the effort in at the beginning.

                  Clive

                  #756092
                  Sonic Escape
                  Participant
                    @sonicescape38234

                    Now I have another problem. The thin end of the gib doesn’t reach the lock screw. It is not very visible in the photo but there are 7mm between the end of the gib and the closest possible screw position. If I push the gib harder the table gets stuck. And still the tip of the gib doesn’t touch the screw. This is weird.

                    I removed twice the gib and I cleaned it and put again some ISO 68 way oil on both sides. And I check with a flash light if there is no swarf in the channel but everything is fine. I can add a piece of metal at the tip of the gib to reach the screw. But I wonder how this machine ever worked?

                     

                     

                    #756097
                    Sonic Escape
                    Participant
                      @sonicescape38234

                      It seems that sometimes it is enough to describe here the problem and the solution becomes obvious. After writing the previous message I went to the garage and I put two screwdrivers at both ends to push the gib up. Or diagonally. Like in the photos. This created a lot of space and I was able to push more the gib toward the thin end. Now both lock screws are pushing the gib so I was able to adjust it. The table moves easily and there is no play.

                       

                      #756099
                      Hopper
                      Participant
                        @hopper

                        Did the machine work OK before you started touching the gib and screws? Did the gib strip go all the way to the screw at that time?

                        It could also be swarf or burr etc on the other dovetail slide way on the other side moving the whole casting to one side and not allowing enough room for the gib strip.

                        #756250
                        Sonic Escape
                        Participant
                          @sonicescape38234

                          Yes, that could be a reason indeed. But in my case the solution was to push the gib up with two screwdrivers at both ends. Now the gib is well within the adjusting range of both lock screws.

                          #756318
                          Clive Foster
                          Participant
                            @clivefoster55965

                            Sonic

                            Glad you got it sorted.

                            But that sort of issue is why it’s important to lubricate the back as well as the front so the gib can self settle into its’ best operating position. Also why lots of pushing back and forth is needed to get things just so.

                            Never need the screwdriver lifting trick myself as everything I’ve worked on has been pretty close fitting vertically but I can see how it might sometimes, as in your case, be necessary.

                            Clive

                            #756325
                            SillyOldDuffer
                            Moderator
                              @sillyoldduffer
                              On Sonic Escape Said:

                              I think I made a big mistake with my mill…

                              Well done Sonic for admitting the mistake, taking advice, and then describing how he successfully fixed it!

                              Perhaps there is more value to be squeezed from the incident though. Though no-one was hurt, it appears Sonic had an avoidable accident, worth investigating in itself.  Ideally, we want to avoid workshop accidents.

                              Unpicking the sequence:

                              • Sonic is new to the hobby, and an adventurous spirit. I detect no formal training, so – like me and many others – he’s self-taught.   Basics that apprentices were taught early in their careers by a grizzled pro have to be learned the hard-way. Being self-taught means great chunks of machinist know-how are likely to be missing.
                              • Sonic picks up second-hand tools in Rumania for no particular reason other than to explore them, and in hope they will be useful later.  New learners can’t be expected to do a good job selecting second-hand tools.
                              • Over-confidence is a common learner mistake.  Dangerous lifting perhaps bending the machine, expecting too much of tools, and dismantling without realising a precision machine can damaged and may be hard to reassemble correctly.
                              • Inexperience is another booby trap.  Chaps who’ve had a bad experience reinstalling a careless removed wiring loom, are likely to take notes and photographs next time!   Likewise, experience can also be a trap.   This one catches chaps who think they’ve done it before, only to find they’re struggling with an unknown variant.

                              And are there any ‘lessons learned’ from Sonic’s adventure that can be applied in future to avoid similar adventures?  I think so.  It boils down to approach with caution, having a think before acting, and keeping a simple record.  The goal is avoid avoidable mistakes like missing a couple of retaining screw during reassembly.  Or continuing to wind the handle against stiff resistance, a clear warning that something was wrong, not long after Sonic had opened it up.

                              More experienced workers can rely on memory, but still expect blunders if tired, drunk, ill or distracted!   We hope their experience covers what they need to do when their performance is impaired for any reason.  Often it doesn’t.

                              I’ve mentioned notes and photos, but there are plenty of other self-help methods.  During disassembly watchmakers put parts into small pots, whilst workers on large parts often use trays.  In both examples the parts are laid out in order,  making it obvious on re-assembly if anything has been missed.   I expect others will recommend other methods, like RTFM!

                              Dave

                               

                               

                               

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