Centec 3B Table Power Feed Device

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Centec 3B Table Power Feed Device

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  • #751244
    Graham Horne 2
    Participant
      @grahamhorne2

      Hi All,

      I have a Centec 3B mill from the late 60’s. Most of the mill is in relatively good condition. I have made a new heavy duty table on casters that has levelling plates in the casters that screw down to level up. Eight drawers on heavy duty bearing slides are built into table hold all the tooling etc.

      The mill now has 1.1kw 3-phase motor powered by a VFD with fascia mounted power and control switches etc. The Centec was offered in 2 maximum speed variants of either 1400 or 2800 RPM. From what I could workout the real difference between the variants was whether a 2 pole or 4 pole motor was supplied (or that’s my assumption for the difference because all i could see change was the electric motor was 2800RPM) as the gearbox and bearings was unchanged. On that basis my my 1400 RPM 4 pole motor can be spun to 2800 RPM with the VFD (100Hz) and the bearings in the motors are the same for both 2 and 4 pole motors. If I am wrong please let me know as I am expecting to be able to hit 2800 RPM and make maybe 3000 RPM on the vertical head (not production pushed but just occasional).

      I am about to disassemble the machine into the paintable components and will cleanup, smooth and prime all castings and then paint with 2 pack epoxy (folding open front spray booth is now finished and operational). Maybe I will replace the bearings but will check to see the state once its striped down. On reassembling I will be paying attention to mating surfaces on both the column ways for the knee and the table ways. I have not done scraping before but I have watched plenty of videos about the process. I  have the surface table and tools so I am hoping to scrape them back to near new working (don’t laugh too loud as I might hear you from here). I said I would try.

      One of my goals is to improve the finish quality from tools like a fly cutter on aluminium surfaces so a power feed would do that. A couple of things I am considering.

      1. Cast and remake the lead slide nut in bronze (perhaps make it backlash adjustable as well) and do away with the disengaging mechanism thus not having fast-speed movement of the table and then remove the fast movement capstan. Any thoughts? If anybody has already done this and or sells the blanks (so I dont have to cast) please let me know (casting is new to me).

      2. There are many cheap Chinese Bridgeport mill table power feeds available. I was thinking of adapting one of these to power feed the Centec table. I dont like my chances of getting a genuine Centec power feed even though that may be better. The import offers the high speed burst to move the table fast without the fast capstan whereas the original probably expects fast table movement to be done by disengaging the half nut and use the capstan and rack.

      Thanks in advance and I look forward to your replies.

      Graham

       

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      #751252
      SillyOldDuffer
      Moderator
        @sillyoldduffer
        On Graham Horne 2 Said:


        On that basis my my 1400 RPM 4 pole motor can be spun to 2800 RPM with the VFD (100Hz) and the bearings in the motors are the same for both 2 and 4 pole motors. If I am wrong please let me know as I am expecting to be able to hit 2800 RPM and make maybe 3000 RPM on the vertical head (not production pushed but just occasional).

         


        Graham

         

        There’s a limit to the frequency range a 3-phase motor will respond to satisfactorily.    The coils are wound on steel laminations which greatly enhance the magnetic effect but respond rather slowly to reversals.   When a sine wave is input, the current first drives the poles North South, and then reverses to drive them South North.   The changing magnetic field then crosses into the rotor, where it generates the eddy currents that result in the out-of phase magnetic fields that spin the motor.

        These magnetic changes take time to push through the laminations, which are usually designed to maximise efficiency in the 50/60Hz range.    Modern motors are more likely to cope with high-speed than old ones, but it’s a gamble – we don’t know what the core is made of.   Old or new, the motor becomes inefficient and loses power and torque when taken too far out of its comfort zone.

        A 1400rpm motor spun at 2800rpm won’t have as much oomph as a 2800rpm, but the shortfall may not matter.   If 2800rpm is an occasional convenience, then boosting a 1400rpm with a VFD should work well-enough in short bursts, provided the operator compensates for reduced oomph. But if the machine will mostly operate at high speed, then better to fit a 2800rpm motor.

        Try it and see.  Should be acceptable, but no-one can guarantee your particular motor will be ‘good enough’!

        Dave

         

         

        #751278
        Michael Callaghan
        Participant
          @michaelcallaghan68621

          I removed the old motor on my centec and replaced with a new motor, it’s an easy job to do. This give me a lot more speeds then the older motor could deal with. The centec mill only as a very small bed, I had power feed on my mill but never used it. However the half nut can be a pain and is a weak point on otherwise a good little mill. Make sure that what ever you do that the locking mechanism for this nut is free acting.

          #751292
          Chris Gunn
          Participant
            @chrisgunn36534

            Graham, At one time there was a guy offering new Centec power feed half nuts, I think looking at the Lathes site would be a good start to track this down, or a Centec user group.

            Chris Gunn

            #751311
            not done it yet
            Participant
              @notdoneityet

              My 2B is driven by a non-standard full lead-screw nut.  As I’m not often in need of an ultra fast turn-around, I usually just reverse the power feed at full speed.  The gears can be changed around in the Centec power feed gear box.

              I can’t recall which speed mine is set up for.  It is likely a lower speed combination as the power feed motor is wound star – but runs from a 220V VFD.

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