What pitch?

Advert

What pitch?

Home Forums The Tea Room What pitch?

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #745108
    Vic
    Participant
      @vic

      I’m thinking of making a jig to cut threads on my wood turning lathe.There are a number of commercial units on the market and I’ve noticed that some of them have a “click stopped” dial for advancing the cut. It’s not that important to me how many clicks are required for a given thread but I’m intrigued by the numbers I’m seeing in the description:

      A 20 TPI thread needs 3 clicks,

      16 = 5

      14 = 7

      12 = 9

      I can’t seem to work out what the likely thread pitch is used on the adjuster? The cutters are 60°

      This is the type of jig. The click stop adjuster is circled in red. Any ideas?

      IMG_1647

      Advert
      #745115
      DC31k
      Participant
        @dc31k

        You can look up the single depth of thread for any pitch of a 60 degree thread.

        You can find or derive a mathematical expression that says d = x/p where d is the single depth, x is a number based on the thread geometry and p is the tpi of the thread.

        An example chart for UN form threads is here:

        https://kb.wisc.edu/engr/teamlab/page.php?id=81932

        If you take the numbers from that, and divide the 20 tpi single depth by three, you get a number that is double that which you obtain if you take the 12 tpi single depth and divide it by nine.

        You can also see from that chart that no integer threads per inch number will work on a feedscrew, because the numerator for the fraction they give for the single depth is not a ‘nice’ number.

        You can also also see that if the feedscrew had a pitch of 10tpi and a dial graduated in 100 divisions or 100 ‘clicks’ (i.e. one division is 0.001″), 20 tpi would need 32 clicks, 16 tpi would need 41 clicks, 14 tpi would need 46 clicks and 12 tpi would need 54 clicks.

        On that basis, something smells fishy.

        However, we do not know if the device is made for UN (flat-crested) threads or sharp 60 degree threads, so reacalculate based on sharp threads (a much easier exercise for your brain than doing so for a flat-crested item), and see what you conclude.

        Can you link to the device’s product description.

        #745118
        ChrisLH
        Participant
          @chrislh

          Does the click adjuster have to be threaded, could it be a face cam correctly spaced steps ?

          #745125
          Vic
          Participant
            @vic
            #745139
            DC31k
            Participant
              @dc31k
              On Vic Said:

              All the units I’ve seen have a threaded adjuster.

              When you read the review of the bestwoodtools one, the reviewer talks in terms of measurements in thousandths of an inch of infeed for the thread he is cutting. You can also see from the pictures that the dial on that one has finer graduations than ‘clicks’. That is a way of using it which is closer to how you would cut a thread on a metalworking lathe.

              The eBay one has problems with describing the product: in the first paragraph it cuts 16 tpi threads; in the second it cuts 10 tpi threads. When you post an eBay link, it creates less clutter if you delete everything after and including the first question mark in the URL.

              Woodworkers do not work in the same manner as metalworkers. All the clicks do is to ensure that the depth of the internal and external threads are the same. The actual numbers given have probably been arrived at by trial and error – they work OK for the pitches listed. The threads thus produced will not match any international standard.

              #745142
              SillyOldDuffer
              Moderator
                @sillyoldduffer
                On DC31k Said:

                You can look up the single depth of thread for any pitch of a 60 degree thread.

                You can find or derive a mathematical expression that says d = x/p where d is the single depth, x is a number based on the thread geometry and p is the tpi of the thread.


                On that basis, something smells fishy.

                However, we do not know if the device is made for UN (flat-crested) threads or sharp 60 degree threads, so reacalculate based on sharp threads (a much easier exercise for your brain than doing so for a flat-crested item), and see what you conclude.

                Can you link to the device’s product description.

                I attempted similar assuming that Wood Threads were Whitworth, and my answers also smell of fish!

                Made me think, is there a standard for Wood Threads?   I couldn’t find one.

                I tend to assume unknown threads ‘must’ be based on one of the fastener standards such as BSW, UNC, or Metric,  but that ain’t so. Look at any bottle-top!

                Maybe wood threads aren’t standardised, in which case let’s hope a kind person with a wood threading jig will measure how far a click moves it.   Wonderful too if they could identify the thread form.

                Dave

                 

                #745169
                Mark Rand
                Participant
                  @markrand96270

                  If you are using threading inserts or bits, ACME is decent for wood. The coarser the better.

                  #745173
                  DC31k
                  Participant
                    @dc31k
                    On SillyOldDuffer Said:

                    Look at any bottle-top!

                    Bottle tops are produced to Standards. It may be that because you have never needed them, you are unfamiliar with them.

                    https://www.paramountglobal.com/uk/knowledge/bottle-neck-thread-finish/

                    https://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/KS-KT-thread.html

                    https://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/glass-thread.html

                    In a similar vein, the threads on 25 litre plastic drums are documented, as are the ones on IBCs (intermediate bulk containers – the large, roughly 1000 litre plasti cubes).

                    With 3D printing becoming ever more popular, having these sources for this obscure information makes many things possible.

                    #745174
                    Vic
                    Participant
                      @vic

                      I’ve just looked again and says 1mm.

                      IMG_1650

                       

                      #745186
                      Vic
                      Participant
                        @vic
                        On DC31k Said:
                        On Vic Said:

                        All the units I’ve seen have a threaded adjuster.

                         

                        All the clicks do is to ensure that the depth of the internal and external threads are the same.

                        Yes of course. That’s what makes it so attractive. Quick and easy and positive. No miss reading a dial or having it move inadvertently. Fine enough though it seems to add another click if the fit is a bit tight. I think maybe on this occasion I should just buy rather than make.

                         

                        #745195
                        Martin Connelly
                        Participant
                          @martinconnelly55370

                          The thread tpi is determined by the screw thread sticking out to the right. The depth of the thread is determined by the number of clicks. To do a coarse thread you would have a coarse thread feed screw and that coarse thread would need a deeper cut to avoid truncated threads. I think you will find that either there is a kit with multiple feed screws or you can buy/make different feed screws for the thread you want to create.

                          Martin C

                          #745209
                          Bazyle
                          Participant
                            @bazyle

                            Nothing says how many clicks per rev.
                            However from the progression given initially the next one is 10tpi with 11 clicks. I’d want my 10tpi to be about 1/10th in deep so roughly 1 click = 1/100in as a nice round figure.
                            If it weren’t in metric land most toolmakers would use a 10tpi thread and 10 clicks per rev. But woodworkers would have gone for a standard fixing thread and have thought in wood vice size so perhaps chosen the way over strength but familiar size of 3/4 BSW being 10tpi.

                            #745376
                            Vic
                            Participant
                              @vic
                              On Martin Connelly Said:

                              The thread tpi is determined by the screw thread sticking out to the right. The depth of the thread is determined by the number of clicks.

                               

                              Yes, I know.

                               

                              To do a coarse thread you would have a coarse thread feed screw.

                               

                              Yes, I know.

                               

                              and that coarse thread would need a deeper cut to avoid truncated threads. I think you will find that either there is a kit with multiple feed screws

                               

                              Yes, I know.

                               

                              or you can buy/make different feed screws for the thread you want to create.

                              Martin C

                              I think you should reread my original post?

                            Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
                            • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                            Advert

                            Latest Replies

                            Home Forums The Tea Room Topics

                            Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                            Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                            View full reply list.

                            Advert