Draw Filing….

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Draw Filing….

Home Forums Beginners questions Draw Filing….

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  • #745102
    flatline
    Participant
      @flatline

      I am a complete newbie… I’ve finished making my first Hemingway kit & am very pleased with it.. the Centre Height Gauge..

      I am now embarking on another, this time the Spherical Turning Tool. Reference is made in the instructions to ‘draw filing’ – for example the ‘prepare the SIDE ARM by draw filing all over’ … I don’t understand why this would be necessary… and TBH perhaps I don’t fully understand what has to be done & why?

      Can anyone enlighten me please… my apologies for asking, but ‘there’s no such thing as a stupid question’ & I’m probably going to ask a lot more!!

      😎🇬🇧👍IMG_3355

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      #745106
      JasonB
      Moderator
        @jasonb

        It is really only to clean up the surface to remove any marks from when the metal was drawn /rolled or to remove machining marks.

        A fine file is held across you and moved to and fro along the work so the file is cutting sideways. This will give quite a nice finish, if you want finer you can then wrap emery cloth around the file and use it in the same way

        #745116
        Nicholas Farr
        Participant
          @nicholasfarr14254

          Hi Flatline, just as JasonB has described.

          Draw Filling

          Regards Nick.

          #745129
          flatline
          Participant
            @flatline

            Many thanks… 😎🇬🇧👍

            #745144
            SillyOldDuffer
            Moderator
              @sillyoldduffer

              Worth practising to make sure the technique is mastered.   Not quite as easy to get good results as it looks.   Some lucky folk have natural filing talent – not me.

              🙁

              Dave

              #745171
              Mark Rand
              Participant
                @markrand96270

                Use a single cut file, not a double cut one. The latter will tend to produce fine ridges in the work while the former produce a smooth finish.

                The action is shearing rather than cutting.

                #745176
                flatline
                Participant
                  @flatline

                  Many thanks, I really appreciate this forum – the willingness to share knowledge & experience 😎🇬🇧👍

                  #745206
                  HOWARDT
                  Participant
                    @howardt

                    Draw filing was the only finish allowed when I was training nearly sixty years ago. Filing can keep the edges and faces square, emery puts a softer face in contact which will round the surface.

                    #745210
                    Bazyle
                    Participant
                      @bazyle

                      One other factor about draw filing is that the length of the file is giving you a sensitive measure of how level you are keeping the file so, with developing skill, helping keep the edge true.

                      #745239
                      Nigel Graham 2
                      Participant
                        @nigelgraham2

                        Beware of “pinning” the file: i.e. tiny filings becoming wedged in the gullets.

                        They act as fangs, scratching the surface.

                        Keep the file clean, and (I recall being taught at school!) rubbing blackboard chalk into the file will reduce the risk. Don’t use natural chalk rock as that can contain tiny flint or sand grains that will damage the file as well as the work.

                        I have not tried it but talcum powder might be as effective… as well as giving you a rather sweet-smelling workshop!

                        .

                        How to clean the file to remove “pins”? Not with a steel wire brush. Take a scrap of brass and push its edge into and along the teeth (so across the file). It will partially take on the gullet profile and push the swarf out without trying to blunt the teeth.

                        I sometimes use white spirit or WD-40 (mainly white spirit anyway) or thin lubricating oil when draw-filing. It seems to reduce pinning and give a finer finish, but this might be my perception – or luck.

                         

                        Draw-filing is a skill worth cultivating as it can give a lovely satiny-brushed finish on mild-steel especially, and on a model sometimes looking more prototypical than polishing would.

                         

                        #745252
                        duncan webster 1
                        Participant
                          @duncanwebster1

                          Is that what is called a mill file? In a previous existence one of the really skilled chaps kept one of these locked away, rough types like me were not allowed to touch it. He was the one who could file oval crankpins round again rather than having to press them out and remachine

                          #745270
                          Nigel Graham 2
                          Participant
                            @nigelgraham2

                            No. A Mill-file, or milling-cut file, has a single row of straight of curved teeth, but is very coarse.

                            Draw-filing uses a Second-cut or finer, grade.

                            #745285
                            Nicholas Farr
                            Participant
                              @nicholasfarr14254

                              Hi, as Nigel Graham 2 has said, a milling cut file is very course, and cuts much like a milling cutter does, not very good for draw filling. When new they will remove metal very quickly with a few strokes, but don’t really leave a very smooth finish, I used to use 12″ ones a lot, filling keys down, before finishing them to size with a smoothing file. The one in the photo below is a section of a well worn 10″ one.

                              IMG_20240805_081054

                              Regards Nick.

                              #745294
                              Charles Lamont
                              Participant
                                @charleslamont71117

                                Blackboard chalk will do, but a stick of french chalk is perhaps better.

                                #745297
                                duncan webster 1
                                Participant
                                  @duncanwebster1

                                  Didn’t think my memory was that bad, so I googled it. Bahco sell a second cut mill file.

                                  #745308
                                  Michael Gilligan
                                  Participant
                                    @michaelgilligan61133

                                    Don’t worry, Duncan … you were right

                                    https://www.classichandtools.com/vallorbe-10-blunt-mill-file-single-cut/p1269

                                    https://benchmarkabrasives.com/blogs/news/difference-between-a-mill-file-and-a-flat-file

                                    … I think it’s the good old English language that’s struggling again.

                                    ’Mill File’ is not the same as ‘Millenicut File’

                                    https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/files/what-is-a-millenicut-file

                                     

                                    MichaelG.

                                    #745318
                                    Macolm
                                    Participant
                                      @macolm

                                      The cheapest and in my experience also the most satisfactory file for this function is a suitable “farmers own”. Be sure to get a single cut version, preferably on both sides (some have one single, one double cut side). You should be able to easily get a fine score free finish.

                                      FarmersOwn

                                      #745354
                                      Nicholas Farr
                                      Participant
                                        @nicholasfarr14254

                                        Hi, I guess it all depends on local terminology, I’ve always known the type I’ve shown as milling cut, however, Buck & Hickman called them Milled Tooth, and the particular one I’ve shown, is a Dreadnought, and the finer toothed one a Millenicut.

                                        IMG_20240805_113236

                                        IMG_20240805_113331

                                        Cromwell also call them Milled Tooth.

                                        IMG_20240805_112855

                                        While looking through the Cromwell catalogue that I have, I found this.

                                        IMG_20240805_113533

                                        Which relates to the fairly recent discussion about Python file handles, and shows a really good picture of the spring and it’s location inside, and the relative length of the file tang.

                                        Regards Nick.

                                        #745395
                                        Greensands
                                        Participant
                                          @greensands

                                          I was always given to understand that draw filing was a chargeable offence in the RAF but talking to an ex RAF Halton Training School apprentice some years ago he was not able to confirm this as a fact . Can  anyone throw any further light on the matter?

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