Very small work with a piercing saw [?]

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Very small work with a piercing saw [?]

Home Forums Workshop Techniques Very small work with a piercing saw [?]

  • This topic has 22 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 21 May 2024 at 18:57 by Michael Gilligan.
Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)
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  • #730280
    Michael Gilligan
    Participant
      @michaelgilligan61133

      My life at the moment seems dominated by dirty/heavy jobs in and around the house, and my reaction to that has been to start exploring some of the clean [and tiny] work that interests me.

      To that end … can anyone recommend a tutorial of any kind, on the subject of very delicate work with the piercing saw ?

      … I am comfortable with the basics, but would like to learn about how the masters worked.

      Books, articles, videos, whatever … I have found nothing 🙁

      MichaelG.

      .

      Bottom-line may of course be “with years of practice”

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      #730281
      bernard towers
      Participant
        @bernardtowers37738

        I think you may be right there Michael but I have found that to get yourself in a really comfortable situation and good quality blades and change them as soon as the cut slows they are after all a disposable item. Very satisfying when you can reliably cut to within a few thou of the line!

        #730289
        Gary Wooding
        Participant
          @garywooding25363

          +1 for Bernard’s post.

          For fine work you need fine blades – I mostly use 5/0, sometimes 8/0, and occasionally 2/0. Small blades are easy to break if you tilt them sideways, so that’s the first discipline you have to master. The second one is keeping them vertical when turning sharp corners. I suggest holding the saw handle with your fingers rather than your whole hand, that way you are less likely to tilt the blade sideways when rotating it. Be gentle with it.

          Keep the blade slightly lubricated – the traditional lubricant is ‘nose-grease’. Wipe your thumb and forefinger down the sides of your nose, then wipe them down the saw-blade. Nose-grease is free and always available. Use it as soon as the saw starts to drag – it’s remarkable the difference it makes.

          For intricate cuts, I draw or print the path on paper and stick the paper to the metal with Pritt Stick. I saw on the line – not to the side – the blade is about the thickness of the line. The fine swarf is very good at hiding the line, so blow it away frequently. The Pritt stick is water soluble.

          The rest is just practise – and buy lots of blades.

          #730293
          Dalboy
          Participant
            @dalboy

            If you follow the advice given by Gary try printing the pattern with red rather than black as is does moke it easier to see the cut

            #730294
            Michael Gilligan
            Participant
              @michaelgilligan61133

              Thanks, chaps …

              Just to be clear; what I am thinking about is jewellery-scale work [for argument’s sake, let’s say a work area within 10mm diameter]

              Logic suggests that there must be some ‘transition point’ at which the preferred method of working switches from using a saw to simply drilling a hole and proceeding with files … and that transition-point might differ according to how well one can use the saw.

              MichaelG.

              #730297
              Gary Wooding
              Participant
                @garywooding25363

                The swallow is 20mm diam, and the clasp 15 x 8mm.Swallow & Clasp

                #730300
                Michael Gilligan
                Participant
                  @michaelgilligan61133

                  Thanks for sharing that Gary

                  MichaelG.

                  #730326
                  Bazyle
                  Participant
                    @bazyle

                    Remember farthings and halfpennies? With a robin and ship on the back respectively. In the late ’70s one chap in our machine shop was cutting these out with a mill and file and another in the microwave circuit lab was using a laser. They got them gold plated in the plating shop and sold them as a necklace or bracelet.

                    #730330
                    V8Eng
                    Participant
                      @v8eng

                      Ganoskin.com is a very good resource for jewellery making complete with tutorials etc.

                       

                      #730338
                      Grizzly bear
                      Participant
                        @grizzlybear

                        Michael,

                        Jewellry, have you seen Andrew Berry “At the bench” on YouTube?

                        Good Luck………..

                        #730343
                        Michael Gilligan
                        Participant
                          @michaelgilligan61133
                          On Grizzly bear Said:

                          Michael,

                          Jewellry, have you seen Andrew Berry “At the bench” on YouTube?

                          Good Luck………..

                          Funnily enough, I was watching his video review of piercing saws yesterday, before I started this topic.

                          Haven’t delved deeper into his offerings yet … but I like his style.

                          MichaelG.

                          .

                          Update: __ This is getting close to what I was looking-for:

                          https://youtu.be/K9uW9IuwoJM?feature=shared

                          #730506
                          Martin Kyte
                          Participant
                            @martinkyte99762

                            <p style=”text-align: left;”>I use a piercing saw for crossing out clock wheels. My method is to clamp a piece of stiff ply to my drill press table adjusted to roughly chest height. The ply has a narrow V to support the work and clear the blade. This puts the work at a comfortable distance  for close sight. Ensure good lighting and use a head magnifier if required. The work is carried out standing with a straight back. It is possible to cut very accurately to a line in this way.</p>
                            regards Martin

                            #730556
                            jaCK Hobson
                            Participant
                              @jackhobson50760

                              Search for ‘ford hallam saw’ on youtube. Ford world-class speciality is japanese metalwork which involves a lot of cutting out flat shapes with saw. But he is also a jeweller.

                              https://www.google.com/search?q=ford%20hallam%20saw%20site%3Ayoutube.com&rlz=1C1ONGR_en-GBGB1048GB1048&oq=you+tube&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTISCAEQLhgKGMcBGLEDGNEDGIAEMgwIAhAAGAoYsQMYgAQyCQgDEAAYChiABDIJCAQQABgKGIAEMgYIBRBFGDwyBggGEEUYPDIGCAcQRRg80gEIMTU2MmowajeoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ved=2ahUKEwiI5-a7yYyGAxUDWUEAHSdkDA8Q2wF6BAgIEAE&ei=oQxDZsiSGIOyhbIPp8ixeA#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:79b59a8e,vid:ehiRa4dNZe8,st:0

                               

                              You might find this one useful

                               

                              I’ve just watched these again for the xxth time and I learnt something new. You have to watch, try, watch etc. I can’t see some things until I have tried and experienced problems.

                              #730558
                              jaCK Hobson
                              Participant
                                @jackhobson50760

                                Another person I highly respect, Ron Rose, who does a lot of piercing flat stuff for horology recommends only using a large frame saw so you can lock the saw back against your arm:

                                eclipse 12 inch fret saw

                                Ron’s and Ford’s advice don’t always match. They are both top of their game in what they do.

                                 

                                 

                                #730577
                                Michael Gilligan
                                Participant
                                  @michaelgilligan61133
                                  On jaCK Hobson Said:

                                  Search for ‘ford hallam saw’ on youtube. Ford world-class speciality is japanese metalwork which involves a lot of cutting out flat shapes with saw. But he is also a jeweller. […]

                                  Many thanks for that link, jaCK … although I learned nothing new from that particular video, it was immediately clear that I will enjoy watching and learning from him.

                                  My own saw frame, which I am currently in the process of cleaning and polishing a little, was my Dad’s and is almost identical to the first one that he shows.

                                  Dad was born in 1921, so the frame must have been old when he acquired it, and I’ve had it since 1969 … For the scale of work in which I am currently most interested it is almost perfect: strong, light, and beautifully balanced.

                                  MichaelG.

                                  #730598
                                  Grindstone Cowboy
                                  Participant
                                    @grindstonecowboy

                                    I watched an Adam Savage video a while back in which he was being instructed how to use a piercing saw by a chap that manufactures an impressive looking, allegedly stiffer frame. The product placement aside, it did give some very handy tips.

                                    It’s here

                                    Rob

                                    Links to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iemKEhl_BDI

                                    #730613
                                    Michael Gilligan
                                    Participant
                                      @michaelgilligan61133

                                      Interesting, thanks Rob … particularly when compared with the dismissive non-review by Ford Hallam.

                                      MichaelG.

                                      #730615
                                      bernard towers
                                      Participant
                                        @bernardtowers37738

                                        Interesting Martin I had never thought of standing up but can see the thinking behind it, perhaps I will give it a go next time, saves the bent back thing!

                                        #730625
                                        roy entwistle
                                        Participant
                                          @royentwistle24699

                                          Advice I was given was  let the saw do the work. Do not try to force it. And if you turn the blade so that it cuts towards you, you can see where it’s cutting.

                                          Roy

                                          #730645
                                          jaCK Hobson
                                          Participant
                                            @jackhobson50760

                                            Lots of people swear by Knew Concepts saws. My mentors do not. I’m not convinced of the basic premise  of the Knew (frame stiffness and weight).

                                            The jewellers saw is often used for generic metal removal (on a small scale), not just sawing lines. I feel the Knew is targeted at sawing lines. The 3D designs from them might tend to discourage some uses of the jewellers saw.

                                            I like using old tools that have patina through use. Not all old tools work as well as new designs, but I certainly love my older pattern hand-saws.

                                            MichaelG: that second video from Ford where he uses the saw more as a file – Simple application but the video shows the forces and speed to apply… and these are probably the most important thing to learn? I concentrate on being aware of every stroke but Ford is really being aware at finer resolution.

                                            #730647
                                            Bazyle
                                            Participant
                                              @bazyle

                                              Good grief that ‘cutting out a hand’ video was boring but a few jumps ended the pain quite quickly. If you do decide to follow his advice in the last few seconds and ‘halt’ the saw by putting it right up to the steel table do modify it at that point by thickening it so the blade is less inclined to try to cut steel and be quickly blunted. These tables are only a couple of teeth thick so the blade is not held back enough and can catch an edge. So soft solder a bit of 1/8 plate underneath at that point, file to match the table, replace periodically.

                                              #730649
                                              Michael Gilligan
                                              Participant
                                                @michaelgilligan61133

                                                Apologies, jaCK !

                                                I have only just realised that you referenced a second video

                                                … presumably hit by the Bug that I have already reported, it is not visible to me in your post.

                                                MichaelG.

                                                .

                                                IMG_9640

                                                #731854
                                                Michael Gilligan
                                                Participant
                                                  @michaelgilligan61133

                                                  In case anyone is interested … Cousins have an offer on just the one remaining size of these:

                                                  https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/af-swiss-gold-shark-saw-blades

                                                   

                                                  A good general-purpose blade for coarser/thicker work.

                                                  MichaelG.

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