Which Milling Vice

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Which Milling Vice

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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 36 total)
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  • #723911
    David Deaville
    Participant
      @daviddeaville66164

      Hi,

      What would you guys recommend as a good vice for use on a Chester 16VS Mill, I have bought 2 that i thought were good quality (from RDG) but the squareness of them when trying to hold work upto a milling cutter leaves a lot to be desired.

      For example on just a 3inch fly-cut on on square bar the surfaces will be upto 1mm out of square along that 3″ face. i.e. it will have a 1mm slope to it rather than been precisely 90 degrees to the face that helds upto the jaw face. I use a piece of thin rod along one face of the material so i know it’s been held flat against the other jaw face.

      Both the vices I have are screw handle types bolted directly to milling table.

      When I bolt work directly to the table it comes out precisely square, so it is the vice that has the error in it and not the Mill.

       

      Thanks

      Dave D.

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      #723918
      JasonB
      Moderator
        @jasonb

        I use either one of these (80mm) mostly on the SX2.7 and KX3CNC or this K4 on the X3 though mine came from Chronos . The ARC one has no measurable lift, a small amount on the K4 so needs knocking down.

        1mm does sound rather excessive can you post a picture of your setup as there may be something obvious that is not right such as the piece of rod should be against the moving jaw.

        #723923
        David Deaville
        Participant
          @daviddeaville66164

          Hi,

          I always put the rod against the moving jaw to eliminate jaw lift but I don’t think jaw lift is the issue here, i have removed the fix jaw and there is almost 0.1mm difference in the width of the jaw from top to bottom. Just seems not be accurately ground ?

          I have attached a pic to.

           

          20240403_143537

          #723926
          JasonB
          Moderator
            @jasonb

            It looks the right setup.

            But 0.1mm lean on a fixed jaw that is say 30mm high should only result in 0.2- 0.3mm over the 3″ workpiece not 1mm?

            What is the moving jaw like? may be worth just swapping them round if it is OK and see what sort of cut you get then you would know it is just the jaw and not the surface the jaw fixes to adding to the problem.

             

            #723928
            David Deaville
            Participant
              @daviddeaville66164

              Well the mystery deepens.

               

              Good idea to swap the jaws, so i did that, i measuring the moving jaw first and that one’s spot on, i did a fresh cut with the jaws swapped but still have a 1mm error in the same direction.

              #723929
              JasonB
              Moderator
                @jasonb

                is it possible to check the jaw and also it’s mounting face with your square resting on the mill table? may need to swing the vice round length ways to do it

                square

                #723935
                David Deaville
                Participant
                  @daviddeaville66164

                  I’ve done that, the best I can anyway as the base of the vice is slightly in the way, but as you can see from the pic there is a gap there but the way it is “leaning” should make the error i see in the cuts be the other way round, when viewed using your edited pic with the green arrows on it.

                  Just to prove i’m not going mad i measured a 1-2-3 block using the DRO next to the vice but directly on the table and that shows zero errors.20240403_15531120240403_155524

                  #723939
                  Tony Pratt 1
                  Participant
                    @tonypratt1

                    You need to get a DTI involved and do some readings to see if the fixed jaw/work is square to the table. What error do you get running a clock up and down the actual work rear face?

                    Tony

                    #723943
                    David Deaville
                    Participant
                      @daviddeaville66164

                      Running a DTI up and down the fixed jaw i get a error of 0.1mm

                       

                      Running a DTI over the same distance on the works rear face I get zero error.

                      #723945
                      JasonB
                      Moderator
                        @jasonb

                        With the tilt to the jaw that your square is showing I would expect the first picture to be showing light under the square at the front of the machine as the angle (if the cut is horizontal) will be less than 90deg.

                        As Tony says if you have a dti mount it on the head and raise that up and down to read difference between top & bottom of the jaw. Then front to back across a freshly flycut surface. That way the angles an dgas can be confirmed with a bit of trig.

                        I assume you are moving the table side to side to make the cut.

                        #723950
                        JasonB
                        Moderator
                          @jasonb

                          Cross posting. That is ODD, is there any muck or  a burr between jaw and rear of vice body allowing the jaw to move as it is tightened

                          Also check rear face of work is flat. if that is the supplied extruded face then they are not always flat but convex

                          #723953
                          David Deaville
                          Participant
                            @daviddeaville66164

                            I moved the table side to side for the rear face cut using a 3″ fly cutter, for the end face as shown in the pic i’m moving table backwards\forwards, first with the same 3″ fly cutter but now with a 1″ indexed cutter, I get the same errors which ever tool I use.

                            #723955
                            David Deaville
                            Participant
                              @daviddeaville66164

                              I did clean up both jaws and mounting faces when i first noticed this error yesterday, they were very clean anyway.

                              #723958
                              Brian Baker 2
                              Participant
                                @brianbaker2

                                Greetings, I recently purchased from Warco a DH2 vice, which is very versatile, wide jaw opening, and beautify made. Have a look at the specification.  It is also very accurate.  Although expensive, I think it is well worth having, and there is 15% off at the moment.

                                Just a thought.

                                regards

                                Brian B

                                #723962
                                David Deaville
                                Participant
                                  @daviddeaville66164

                                  Brian,

                                  Thanks for that, i will have a look as it’s looking more and more like there is some defect with this vice.

                                  Dave D.

                                  #723974
                                  Nicholas Farr
                                  Participant
                                    @nicholasfarr14254

                                    Hi David, looks to be the same one that I bought from RDG, some while ago. The base may not be square to the jaws, and the best way I find to check it. is with a piece of flat plate in the jaws, long enough to extend past the vice, and then use a square off the table, I’ve used a piece of gauge plate in the photo below, and mine seems to be OK, and I’ve not had any issues with with it when used, but if yours is bad, I would suggest you contact RDG for a replacement or a refund.

                                    Vice Squareness Check

                                    Regards Nick.

                                    #723980
                                    SillyOldDuffer
                                    Moderator
                                      @sillyoldduffer

                                      Is it possible the vice isn’t clamped to the table properly because a BOLT is screwed into the t-nut?  If the bolt bottoms before the vice is fully clamped it and the work can move under cutting pressure, which might explain the peculiar results – the vice is fine, but it can move!

                                      jack

                                      Bolts are considered bad practice because they can bottom out on the table and apply enough up pressure to break the T-Slot.  A stud into the t-nut, plus a top nut gives a reliable clamp and is much safer:

                                      DSC06828

                                      Dave

                                       

                                      #723983
                                      David Deaville
                                      Participant
                                        @daviddeaville66164

                                        Well whatever’s going on here i think the following 4 pics prove its the vice at fault ?20240403_17165420240403_17171620240403_17185020240403_171911

                                        #723987
                                        David Deaville
                                        Participant
                                          @daviddeaville66164

                                          The cap head bolts dont go all the way through the T-Nuts. It’s very tightly clamped down to.

                                          #723994
                                          Martin Connelly
                                          Participant
                                            @martinconnelly55370

                                            You have a large mass of iron overhanging the front of the mill table. If there is any slack in the dovetails it may lift the far side of the table. Try rotating the vice 90° on the table and see what happens. Try putting a dti on the near edge of the table and see if you can lift it with the vice hanging off it. Look at the back of the table to see if there is a gap between the table and the saddle or between the saddle and the base.

                                            Martin C

                                            #723997
                                            JasonB
                                            Moderator
                                              @jasonb

                                              If the weight of the vice is tilting the table why does the table clock zero run out? The 123 block is getting higher the further it goes to the moving jaw which is the opposite of what it would do if the weight of the vice were pulling it down.

                                              First two pics show 0.22mm which is close to what I said it would be if jaws were 0.1mm out, don’t know where the original 1mm comes from

                                              Send the photos to RDG and ask them to send a replacement.

                                              Oh I’d better take the bolts off my two vices.

                                              #724000
                                              David Deaville
                                              Participant
                                                @daviddeaville66164

                                                Hi, The original 1mm is shown in the very first photo, the distance between the end of the Square and the top of the work piece is 1mm.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                #724002
                                                Bo’sun
                                                Participant
                                                  @bosun58570

                                                  Hello David,

                                                  I use the ARC 100mm “Versatile” milling vice (without the swivel base) on my Warco WM16B Mill and find it excellent, apart from the somewhat cumbersome handle.  A shop made spinner handle sorts things out and the supplied handle just gets used for final tightening.

                                                  #724005
                                                  David Deaville
                                                  Participant
                                                    @daviddeaville66164

                                                    Hi, you are the 2nd person to suggest the ARC one, I will look into it.

                                                     

                                                    Thanks

                                                    #724010
                                                    Nicholas Farr
                                                    Participant
                                                      @nicholasfarr14254

                                                      Hi David, you should take those two blocks out, and test the surface of the vice they are sitting on, to get a true reading, as the blocks can give you cumulative errors. measuring the vice surface will tell you directly if it’s sloping up/down, one way or the other, with respect to the table, assuming the table itself isn’t sloping, with respect to your cutting tool. Looking at the photo with your block, and showing a gap at the top of the vice jaw, it looks as if your vice is high at the tightening, end which may mean the base and the surface at the bottom of the jaws, might be slightly tapered.

                                                      Regards Nick.

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