Turning long lengths of tube

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Turning long lengths of tube

Home Forums Beginners questions Turning long lengths of tube

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
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  • #708039
    Peter Simpson 3
    Participant
      @petersimpson3

      I have a job to turn some mild steel tube.

      The tube is cold drawn mild steel and the starting dimensions are 254 mm long 8mm OD x 1.5 mm wall thickness. I need to reduce the OD to 7mm over the full length.

      Method 1, Face off and clean ID with a centre drill, hold one end in the chuck and support the free end in a rotating centre in the tailstock. Using a traveling steady cut the OD to size in a couple of full runs.

      Method 2, Face off both ends as above. Allow about 75mm of the tube to protrude from the chuck with the free end supported in a rotating steady. Machine approx. 60mm to 7mm OD. Then allow another 75mm to protrude from the chuck machine the next 60mm length keep doing until most of the tube is at 7mm OD. Finish the tail end with the remaining unmachined end protruding from the chuck.

      Or is the better way.

      I have 50 to machine so its going to be slow.

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      #708046
      Ian P
      Participant
        @ianp

        You dont say what tolerance you require but method one is by far the best. Using method 2 you will end up with each section having a slight taper.

        Ian P

        #708047
        Peter Cook 6
        Participant
          @petercook6

          Make an expanding mandrel to fit the ID. Use method 1 , but use the mandrel held in the chuck to turn the OD. That will let you turn the full length in one go.

          #708049
          Ian P
          Participant
            @ianp

            An expanding mandrel to fit in a 5mm bore is unlikely to transmit enough torque to allow metal removal at a rate that the OP will find acceptable.

            Held in chuck only one pass should be required.

            Ian P

            #708055
            Nigel Graham 2
            Participant
              @nigelgraham2

              I’d be inclined to use a collet rather than a chuck, to spread the gripping load more evenly around the circumference. A 3- or 4- jaw chuck risks some crushing on this thin-walled stock. It’s likely to be more concentric as well.

              Other than that I think cutting full-length with a steady would be more likely to give a consistent result. How critical is concentricity? With only 1mm wall left after turning it would not take much deflection or a slight bend in the stock, to give slightly eccentric tube even using a travelling-steady.

              A steady with a bush rather than fingers might be an advantage here.

              I forget the proper name but there is a capstan-lathe tool that combines a cutting-tool and two ball-race fingers as steady, in one holder. Something like that to clamp in the lathe’s normal tool-holder, would be fairly easy to make and might be ideal for this kind of operation as it holds the material very close to the tool.

              I’m guessing this if for someone else so you’ve little choice, but if I were working to my own design I’d not use non-standard tube!

              #708057
              Peter Simpson 3
              Participant
                @petersimpson3

                The tolerance is not super critical 0.005″ +/- would be OK

                I have had a couple of test runs by

                Facing off both ends, lightly cleaning up the ID’s with a centre drill.

                Allowing approx. 50mm of tube to protrude from the chuck supported by a rotating centre. Turn both ends close to 7mm. Machine the full length using a traveling steady to the correct ID. This worked OK although the finish varied in quality along the length.

                #708074
                duncan webster 1
                Participant
                  @duncanwebster1
                  On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

                  I’d be inclined to use a collet rather than a chuck, to spread the gripping load more evenly around the circumference. A 3- or 4- jaw chuck risks some crushing on this thin-walled stock. It’s likely to be more concentric as well.

                  Other than that I think cutting full-length with a steady would be more likely to give a consistent result. How critical is concentricity? With only 1mm wall left after turning it would not take much deflection or a slight bend in the stock, to give slightly eccentric tube even using a travelling-steady.

                  A steady with a bush rather than fingers might be an advantage here.

                  I forget the proper name but there is a capstan-lathe tool that combines a cutting-tool and two ball-race fingers as steady, in one holder. Something like that to clamp in the lathe’s normal tool-holder, would be fairly easy to make and might be ideal for this kind of operation as it holds the material very close to the tool.

                  I’m guessing this if for someone else so you’ve little choice, but if I were working to my own design I’d not use non-standard tube!

                  what you’re looking at is a roller box. Start with an overlength bit to allow chucking in a collet (colleting?), or start with a double length bit, do both ends then cut in 2

                  #708080
                  peak4
                  Participant
                    @peak4

                    Have you already cut all the tubes to length?
                    Is so, how much  facing allowance have you made?

                    Just a thought to expand on/discuss.

                    Take a piece of 8mm (silver steel, EN8or19) bar and turn a long 5mm stub on it.
                    Where the diameter change occurs, cross drill and fit a thin tough pin; (drill shank or piano wire?).

                    For the tailstock end, take another bit of bar turn down to a long 5mm stub again to fit the bore, and centre drill the other end. Maybe knock the OD down to 7mm for a short section.

                    Hacksaw a shallow slot in one end of the tube, such that the cross pin will act as a drive dog on the end of the tube(s).
                    Fit centre drilled plug in the other end of the tube, and turn to length using a travelling steady.
                    Since the headstock plug end is 8mm and protruding from the chuck/collet, the travelling steady can run off the workpiece onto the stub.

                    Face end(s) to length

                    Alternatively, if you don’t have the tube in stock yet, look for 7 x 1mm stainless, which already exists to size.

                    Bill

                    #708156
                    Rod Renshaw
                    Participant
                      @rodrenshaw28584

                      I suspect many of the suggested methods might have not taken into account how flexible a workpiece of this length and diamter will be. Anything that does not use a steady of some type will probably end up in a tapered (barrel shaped ) result and perhaps a poor finish?

                      There is or was a the “Jabus” type small diameter turning tool which combines a tubular steady and cutting tool in one unit. There are images on Google. A home made one is not difficult to make, especially if it only has to deal with one size of material and one final diameter.

                      Bill’s suggestion of a ready sized tube seems very promising.

                      Rod

                      #708170
                      noel shelley
                      Participant
                        @noelshelley55608

                        What is the job ? Which dimentions are critical ? ID ? If only the OD then as Bill has said use the right size tube. Does it have to be tube ?p Plan B design the job around a standard size tube ? Good luck Noel.

                        #708200
                        Peter Simpson 3
                        Participant
                          @petersimpson3

                          The job is making tube magazines for ASI paratrooper air rifles. Both the ID and the OD need to be close to the given dimensions, there is also a 3mm slot which runs down the length of the tube for 140mm. The reason I did mot choose S/Steel was cutting the 3mm slot in stainless and also the tube needs to be chemically blacked after all of the other components are completed.

                          #708203
                          peak4
                          Participant
                            @peak4

                            In which case, the 3mm slot would work with an internal drive dog.

                            Bill

                            #708217
                            duncan webster 1
                            Participant
                              @duncanwebster1

                              I’d get the tube stress relieved before you start cutting the slot. It could easily distort otherwise

                              #708220
                              Nigel Graham 2
                              Participant
                                @nigelgraham2

                                I don’t know what ASI stands for, but is this a commercial sub-contract?

                                If so I would expect the designer to assume tube material made to size, though whether you (or I ) can obtain 7mm o.d. X 1mm wall, cold-drawn, m.s. tube easily is another matter. It seems an unusual diameter. Perhaps he knows a supplier!

                                I would also expect the +/-0.005″ tolerance to be on thickness and concentricity throughout the length, which as we’ve seen so far won’t be impossible, but not easy to achieve.

                                 

                                Re using the slot for a drive-dog: I’d say no.

                                I’d cut the slot after turning the outside, and a 3mm slitting-saw might give better results than a slot-drill.

                                Maintaining concentricity and finish on a long, plain tube is enough of a headache as it is, and you don’t want the added complication of a widely interrupted turning cut along a thin-walled tube. It could too easily catch and wreck the workpiece at least, and even if it does not do that it may create peculiar edge effects along the slot.

                                Do it afterwards, holding the tube in a channel or Vee-groove for its full length, but be aware either the clamping might close the tube onto the cutter or the tube will spring open slightly, putting it over-size.

                                …..

                                Apart from which:

                                I’m not sure this forum is appropriate for advice for commercial work though. Anyway if for regular military manufacturing, that is normally tied down to all sorts of accreditation and QA schemes.

                                #708245
                                Howard Lewis
                                Participant
                                  @howardlewis46836

                                  The name of the device which escapes you is a Roller Box.

                                  Usually used in Capstan or Turret lathes.

                                  Since you are turning round material, you would have a short length protruding from the chuck and turn it to size. Once done, the rollers would be set to bear on the new surface, to guide and steady the tool when cutting the material over the full length.

                                  Since the rollers steady the material as it is being cut, it will be supported and the diameter should be constant along its length.

                                  Effectively, it isa travelling steady, but set closer to the cutting tool.

                                  Have never yet used it, but made one where the rollers could be reversed, to lead or trail the cutting tool

                                  (Trailing would normally be used when turning down square or hexagon stock, bearing on a short length that had been turned down to size)

                                  Howard

                                  #708259
                                  Grizzly bear
                                  Participant
                                    @grizzlybear

                                    Hi Everyone,

                                    Todays Tinkering – ASI Paratrooper magazine tube | AirGun Forums

                                    Good luck………..

                                    #708307
                                    Martin Connelly
                                    Participant
                                      @martinconnelly55370

                                      To do the whole length I would Loctite the tube onto a piece of Ø5 rod to stiffen it and use a travelling steady. However looking at the suggested link above it seems only the ends are turned down which makes it a lot easier to do.

                                      Martin C

                                      #708314
                                      peak4
                                      Participant
                                        @peak4

                                        I wasn’t suggesting using the whole slot for a drive dog, just the end, where it would be later machined for full width.

                                        I can see why you didn’t go for stainless, but how about going all high tec and using carbon fibre.
                                        Again, it’s available in the correct size from at least one supplier.
                                        https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/7mm-woven-finish-carbon-fibre-tube

                                        https://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=7728

                                        https://www.robotbirds.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/99024/s/7x5mm-1m-carbon-fibre-round-tube-5518458/category/2696/

                                        Cost aside, it would depend on tolerance of course.

                                        Bill

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