Super 7B cross slide gib Wedglok adjusting screws

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Super 7B cross slide gib Wedglok adjusting screws

Home Forums Beginners questions Super 7B cross slide gib Wedglok adjusting screws

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  • #706265
    Peter Tyke
    Participant
      @petertyke

      While removing the 4 set screws holding the cross slide gib plate in place on an ’86-ish 7B  I found what I took to be blue thread lock spread along a third of the length of each screw. Having read the parts list “KA30 Socket set screw – Wedglok (M5 x 0.8 x16mm )”  I guessed these fixings are specials of some sort.  From another post here on the forum, and looking across the web, Wedglok is a proprietary thread locking scheme based on a deformable pellet introduced into the hole before introducing the fixing screw. Seems to be as old as the hills and industrial based and not commonly encountered in hobby world.  Since the set screws have not been cross drilled for a pellet I’m guessing the Myford variant could have been a patch, as seen here https://www.fastenerdata.co.uk/thread-lock. Were they intended for multiple use or are they single use only? I don’t feel confident they won’t move if re-used so have ordered in 20mm set screws and half nuts for locking. However nobody seems to have talked about them, or substitutes, on the forum during refurbs. None of the regular Myford hobby-spares sources list them or suggest alternatives. And, just to be different, the compound slide has locking nuts on the gib screw adjusters!  What have I misunderstood please?

      Regards

      Peter

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      #706268
      bernard towers
      Participant
        @bernardtowers37738

        According to the description its not a threadlocker as in loctite but seems to be more of an anti vibration thing. I would also imagine that after a decent passage of time that the plastic slug would lose its elasticity.

        #706294
        Michael Gilligan
        Participant
          @michaelgilligan61133

          Most of the ‘patches’ on screws are [something like] Nylon, and are very effective unless they are disturbed many times.

          There are [were?] however also patches containing micro-encapsulated anaerobic thread-locker, rather like those scratch&sniff perfume samples.

          This is mind-bogglingly clever stuff when you realise we have ‘micro-encapsulated’ and ‘anaerobic’ there in the same sentence !!

          MichaelG.

          #706299
          SillyOldDuffer
          Moderator
            @sillyoldduffer

            Lock-nuts work OK but are fiddly to adjust; I guess wedglok threads just stay where they’re put.  I expect the screws can be adjusted many times when new but nothing lasts forever. ‘Blue thread lock spread along a third of the length of each screw‘ sounds as if the inserts gone the way of all flesh and need to be replaced.

            I wonder if Blue Loctite would do much the same job, just put fresh on each time the screws need readjusting?

            Dave

            #706308
            Michael Gilligan
            Participant
              @michaelgilligan61133

              Please excuse the photo quality … I need an early night.

               

              This is a new and unused M6 countersunk, courtesy of IKEA

              .

              IMG_9238

              .

              The thin layer of blue whatever-it-is on these works quite well, and is dry.

              MichaelG.

              #706317
              Bazyle
              Participant
                @bazyle

                We used to use versions of Loctite that hold the screw under severe vibration (aircraft) yet allowed the screw to be undone for servicing. Would last half a dozen cycles.

                #706335
                Harry Wilkes
                Participant
                  @harrywilkes58467

                  I worked for several year for a UK company that applied many of the thread locking methods shown in Peter’s link plastic ‘patches’ are reusable however their effectiveness drops off after each removal. When a machine was setup for a run the strength of the ‘patch’ was measured by inserting the fastener into a tapped hole with the aid of a torque wrench this was done 5 times with the results up to the fifth removal having to conform to the then BS standard.But of course things have changed since then with new products coming along and the use of robots to apply them.

                  H

                   

                  #706362
                  Howard Lewis
                  Participant
                    @howardlewis46836

                    Wedgelock fasteners , as said, used a nylon(?) pellet attached to the thread, to produce friction (Presumable by forcing the external thread across the clearance, to bear heavily against the metal of the internal thread )

                    A home made version can be used by dropping a length of something like fishing line into the hole before forcing the fastener into the tapping.

                    Micro Encapsulated Anaerobic Sealing attaches minute sealed globules of an anaerobic to the thread.

                    When the internal and external threads come together, the globule, being larger than the clearance between the threads, breaks, releasing the anaerobic to act as a thread sealt or lock (Depending upon the grade selected)

                    Each has their uses, depending upon the permancy required for the retention / sealing.

                    Howard

                    #706503
                    Fowlers Fury
                    Participant
                      @fowlersfury

                      Perhaps off-topic – but the late Geo Thomas wrote about “Top-slide Locks” on the Myford (S7).
                      In his excellent book “The Model Engineers Workshop Manual” (TEE Publishing & also in the old M.E. magazines), he advocated 2 improvements. I did both and now, for many years have experienced none of the original problems of feed screw movement under load and regular gib adjustment. The relevant chapter in his book is 16, page 181. His first improvement described is the making & fitting of a simple “lock” ~ used once the feed screw has been set for the cut. His second concerned the original Myford gib adjusting screws, which though later having hemispherical heads, he considered were responsible for the regular need to adjust the gib. His solution was to drill and fit a steel dowel to lock the gib and prevent it moving as the screws + lock nuts are tightened.
                      IMHO, making both improvements is time well spent. Gib adjustment is now a rare event.

                       

                      #706562
                      bernard towers
                      Participant
                        @bernardtowers37738

                        FF, How right you are, done the same we have a lot to be grateful for, he was very clever.

                        #706610
                        Harry Wilkes
                        Participant
                          @harrywilkes58467

                          Howard fishing line  is a good idea strimmer line is also very good

                          H

                          #707067
                          Peter Tyke
                          Participant
                            @petertyke

                            Thank you all for all the replies. Looking again under magnification it hasn’t smeared; it looks like it was a pre-applied 180 degree patch and much of it is still there despite the kitchen towel wipe over. ( I just tried to insert an image of it but crashed the post so have started again). The general appearance looks like Michael’s Ikea csk screw. It is not totally hard but strongly resists gouging with a scalpel. Semi hard, and dry, would be a better description. There may well be a bottled “Loctite ” or similar product to achieve the same end but probably not worth it for four screws! I’ll stay with the lock nuts or fishing line suggestion for the moment. The Geo Thomas mod and round point set screws may well be something for later.

                            P.

                            #707076
                            Harry Wilkes
                            Participant
                              @harrywilkes58467

                              When I removed mine slide to have it milled to fit DRO I just reused mine and they have been fine.

                              H

                              #707140
                              Kiwi Bloke
                              Participant
                                @kiwibloke62605

                                I expected someone to have made the following suggestion by now, but they haven’t…

                                One manufacturer (at least?) produces screws under this name which have a blind, radial hole, in which a short length of plastic (nylon?) rod (e.g. strimmer line) is located. It’s a tight fit, and sticks up to – or a bit proud of – the major dia. of the thread. The hole dia. looks to be in the order of a quarter to a third of the screw’s dia. Obviously, the hole should be located at the far end of the screw, where there is full thread engagement, but relatively low axial force when tightened. Also, the hole should be blind, to ensure metal-to-metal friction doing the binding. However, for a moderately ‘stiff’ adjuster, I’d imagine a through hole would be OK. Suggestion – it’s an easy DIY job, and can be re-used indefinitely with a new bit of plastic!

                                #707157
                                Michael Gilligan
                                Participant
                                  @michaelgilligan61133

                                  That’s strange, Kiwi … from my reading of the opening post, Wedglok is where I thought we were starting from.

                                   

                                  https://www.fastenerdata.co.uk/thread-patch-pellet-tip

                                   

                                  MichaelG.

                                  .

                                  Edit: __ is your suggestion the use of a through-hole ?

                                  #707181
                                  Kiwi Bloke
                                  Participant
                                    @kiwibloke62605

                                    My suggestion was that achieving more-or-less the same device is an easy DIY proposition. From the OP’s post, “Wedglok is a proprietary thread locking scheme based on a deformable pellet introduced into the hole before introducing the fixing screw” [my italics], I thought there was some confusion. I took ‘the hole’ to be the one into which the fixing screw was to be introduced – i.e. the same technique mentioned in later posts. However, OP then also mentions cross-drilling, so I got confused…

                                    There are also Stanley ‘Wedgelock’ fasteners, incorporating ratchet-faced washers, like Nord-Lock (hope the spelling is correct…), and, IIRC, other devices, all under similar names, but using different ‘locking’ techniques. So confusion abounds (at least in my addled brain…)!

                                    My comment about a through hole was intended to suggest that a smooth but ‘stiff’ adjustment may be better achieved if the metal-to-metal friction induced by the one-sided thrust of a pellet in a blind hole is eliminated. Not for this application, but for things that need repeated adjustment.

                                    #707219
                                    Michael Gilligan
                                    Participant
                                      @michaelgilligan61133

                                      Thanks, Kiwi … I think we’re on the same page

                                      [ there was indeed some scope for alternative readings of the text you quoted, but I happened to recognise the Trade-Name ]

                                      MichaelG.

                                      #707429
                                      Harry Wilkes
                                      Participant
                                        @harrywilkes58467

                                        Most if not all the ‘plastic patches’ on fasteners can be reused, the ones that I was more familiar with were screwed into a tapped hole 5 times with the torque in and out recorded the test results needed to fall within BS standards including the fifth removal

                                        H

                                         

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