Car gear box max speed

Advert

Car gear box max speed

Home Forums General Questions Car gear box max speed

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #690047
    Colin Whittaker
    Participant
      @colinwhittaker20544

      I’m looking at an electric motor replacement of the diesel engine in my old land rover. With a maximum electric motor speed of 7100 rpm my spread sheet suggests gear 1 will handle all speeds from 0 to 70 kph (and 70 kph is my maximum safe speed in a 63 year old 4WD).

      My head says, “7100 rpm, gear 1, why not?” My gut says, “7100 rpm in a series 3 land rover gear box. Oo er!”

      Any cerebral opinions?

      Advert
      #690088
      Michael Gilligan
      Participant
        @michaelgilligan61133

        A nice epicyclic reduction box twixt electric motor and input shaft might be advisable.

        MichaelG.

        #690106
        David Jupp
        Participant
          @davidjupp51506

          The electric motor delivers full torque from zero rpm so you certainly don’t need to use 1st gear.

          I have a book from USA on DIY electric conversions for pickup trucks, in that the author suggested leaving gearbox in place and running it in 2nd gear all the time after replacing engine with motor.  That arrangement apparently gave adequate acceleration and top speed.

          Max rpm of the original engine should give a rough guide to input speed capability for the gearbox.

          #690111
          Colin Whittaker
          Participant
            @colinwhittaker20544

            Michael, As an electrical engineer by training I want to reduce things mechanical. I’m already traumatised by the idea of connecting an electric motor to the clutch housing. Ideally I’d buy a multi-pole motor in order to reduce the speed by 2 or 3 and increase the torque by 2 or 3 and then direct drive to the differential but lightweight and cheap car motors from China don’t come that way.

            David, Using 2nd gear would theoretically take me up to >100 kph that’s why I was looking at 1st gear. That and having enough torque to climb a 30% gradient with a relatively small electric motor. My Haynes manual quotes the 2.25 litre petrol engine as providing 77 hp at 4250 rpm so I guess 7100 rpm is not that outlandish with most of my journeys peaking at 5800 rpm and the motor torque peaking at around 3500 rpm

            Thanks guys. I appreciate being able to bounce ideas off you.    Colin

            #690112
            Maurice Taylor
            Participant
              @mauricetaylor82093

              Hi ,this might give you some ideas .   https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12421846/     It’s an episode of Vintage Voltage.

              Maurice

               

              #690127
              Colin Whittaker
              Participant
                @colinwhittaker20544

                Maurice,

                I can’t get into that episode but other UK land rover conversions I’ve seen are Tesla based and super, super expensive. However, I’ve found a link to Season 2 and I’m downloading that for any ideas it offers.

                Thanks,   Colin

                #690130
                noel shelley
                Participant
                  @noelshelley55608

                  An EV series 3 is an interesting concept but the gearbox is not intended to take a high input speed and low output continuously. Top gear the one used most is a locked first motion and main shaft set up = straight through, the box was not really being used ! Almost continuous use of second gear would soon overheat the box. The torque characteristics of an electric motor make the normal gearbox almost redundant. Why do you need to use such high input speed ? As has been said, a 2:1 from the motor then use the gear box as normal. I have  a 50 year old S3 with a perkins 203 diesel, I had the opposit problem, max rpm 3000, so used an overdrive box, it would cruise at 50ish all day ! Good luck. Noel.

                  #690137
                  Colin Whittaker
                  Participant
                    @colinwhittaker20544

                    Noel,

                    Mines a Series 2 from 1960 with a Series 3 gear box and the Ashcroft high ratio transfer box. It’s powered by an ancient Nissan TD27 (hint the T does not stand for turbo). The cab, roof and side windows are removed. A roll bar fitted together with a canvas roof. The result, fuel consumption is almost 40 mpg.

                    My problem? I want torque for a 30% gradient without using the low ratios. I have 32″ diameter wheels and a 4.7 diff ratio. That means I need around 470 Nm of torque on the prop shaft.

                    Solution? 10kW continuous (30kW peak) motor spinning gear box in low gear or a motor with 3 times the power and torque going through gear 4.

                    Explaining that to you clarified things in my mind.

                    Thanks,    Colin

                    #690161
                    Bazyle
                    Participant
                      @bazyle

                      Are you removing the clutch so can’t change gear? Seems daft to not use the gearbox when it is still there.
                      Keep us informed on your progress. I have a 110 that might need conversion. Big lead acids in the Sankey may be an option.

                      #690194
                      noel shelley
                      Participant
                        @noelshelley55608

                        I thought 63 years old and S3 didn’t tally. Impressive fuel consumption ! Let us know how it goes and what you used and why. Noel.

                        #690219
                        gerry madden
                        Participant
                          @gerrymadden53711

                          Just to add to Noels comment, the ‘calculated’ lives of the bearings in 1st gear configuration are typically less than 10 hours. (In fact I have seen some as low as 3!). This is sufficient in relation to how much this gear is used in normal manual gearbox duty.  If used 100% of the time they unlikely to be reliable. There is lots of shaft bending in 1st gear too which could also be a limiting factor, depending on the quality of the design.

                          Gerry

                          #690238
                          duncan webster 1
                          Participant
                            @duncanwebster1

                            Why not dump the gearbox and transfer box, couple 2 motors direct to the prop shafts. With full speed on the motors it’s probably too fast, but at half speed you’d get as much power from 2 as you would from one at full speed

                            #690248
                            Robert Atkinson 2
                            Participant
                              @robertatkinson2

                              You would need about 2:1 reduction between the motor and gearbox. You also need to remove the overdrive too. A polyvee belt drive would probaly be the easiest and quietest.
                              However there are other rhings to consider. For example regenerative braking. There is a LOT of backlash in a old landrover transmission so it may not be smooth and I don’t know how well it will handle being back driven. Personally I’d ditch the main gearbox and go into the transfer box directly. You can drive the PTO “output” the same as the gearbox input. Possibly dual motors or dual belt drives to divide the power. Still need some reduction on that 7000 RPM though. Going to the transfer box saves weight and the losses of a multispeed gearbox.

                              Robert.

                              #690374
                              Colin Whittaker
                              Participant
                                @colinwhittaker20544

                                Gerry,

                                That’s the kind of info I was missing but suspected was out there. Thanks for that. I was about to ask about using a direct drive from electric motor to transfer box in low ratio but remembered just in time that would put me in permanent 4WD with no centre differential.

                                Robert,

                                Two motors is something I have been considering. Target prop shaft torque in 2WD is 470 Nm, in 4WD that’s 235 Nm (1 motor front and 1 motor rear). Electric motor peak torque is around double the rated (continuous) torque so that’s two motors with a rated torque of 120 Nm. Most motors have a rated speed of around 3000 rpm which at 120 Nm means I’m looking for a 2 x Pi x 3000 / 60 x 120 = 35 to 40 kW motor. In old units that’s two 50 hp motors.

                                Motor weight? Much less than the diesel engine, clutch, gear box and transfer box it would replace.

                                Drive redundancy for a get you home capability if one set of drive electrics fails.

                                Many Alibaba suppliers have a minimum order number of 2.

                                I guess that’s the way to go.

                                Thanks again guys for helping me clarify my thoughts.

                                Colin

                                 

                                 

                                #690501
                                Dave Halford
                                Participant
                                  @davehalford22513

                                  This will give you an idea what Vintage volt do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoqoL1EyAHk

                                  And an idea of prices from a breakers https://www.evbreakers.com/

                                  Or https://www.electrogenic.co.uk/kits/conversion-kits/series-land-rover-kits/ but for some reason not for DIY and the cheapest kit is off road only.

                                  #690655
                                  Colin Whittaker
                                  Participant
                                    @colinwhittaker20544

                                    Dave,

                                    Even when the prices for EV motors and batteries look good in the UK the cost of shipping and importing into Thailand can double or triple prices.

                                    Fortunately Thailand (where I live) and China are in a semi free trade area so I can “sort of” buy these things new and cheap. “Sort of” means the suppliers want to sell me 100+ motors per month but sometimes they will supply just one or two.

                                    Normally I can find what I want in AliExpress or Alibaba.

                                    Cheers,     Colin

                                    P.S. I was looking for brass sheet for clock making one time. Found exactly what I wanted in China, Minimum Order Quantity 2 Tons! Hey Ho.

                                    #690747
                                    Dave Halford
                                    Participant
                                      @davehalford22513

                                      No doubt the Thai’s have a looser H&S system around high voltage DC than we do as well. Nanny doesn’t insist you have training to jack a car up, but does for electric conversions.

                                      #690925
                                      Robert Atkinson 2
                                      Participant
                                        @robertatkinson2

                                        Dave H, can you point me to the legislation that says this? Other than general H&S competence etc that apply to all work. They of course mean that if someone jacks a car in a workplace without training and has an accident the employer could be found liable.
                                        There are lots of things you can do in your own home quite legally that you can’t do in the workplace easily.

                                        #691010
                                        Andy Stopford
                                        Participant
                                          @andystopford50521
                                          On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

                                          Dave H, can you point me to the legislation that says this? Other than general H&S competence etc that apply to all work. They of course mean that if someone jacks a car in a workplace without training and has an accident the employer could be found liable.
                                          There are lots of things you can do in your own home quite legally that you can’t do in the workplace easily.

                                          Indeed, and in the workplace, the primary onus on the employer is to make a safety assessment as to whether the action presents a hazard, and if so to devise (and follow) a plan to mitigate the hazard. This may involve training, but it isn’t generally prescribed* – the assumption is that those involved in a particular business are probably best able to make such an assessment.

                                          *Though certification may be required for things like installing gas boilers or wiring in bathrooms

                                          #691035
                                          duncan webster 1
                                          Participant
                                            @duncanwebster1

                                            I’ve never understood the antipathy some people have towards H&S. Do they think injuring and killing people is a good thing? Most of the silliness results from not doing a risk assessment properly. As for the specific instance, anyone working under a car supported on jack’s deserves whatever he gets

                                          Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)
                                          • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                          Advert

                                          Latest Replies

                                          Home Forums General Questions Topics

                                          Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                          Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                          View full reply list.

                                          Advert

                                          Newsletter Sign-up