simplex injector

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simplex injector

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  • #62783
    Nigel Hyde
    Participant
      @nigelhyde97004
      Hi all
      i want to fit an injector to my 5″ simplex loco but i am confused as to what size i should put on, some people say a small 18 oz would be fine and some say a 25 oz would be best any ideas, ? also  i will have the use of an axle pump as well
      thanks Nigel

      Edited By Nigel Hyde on 19/01/2011 11:46:52

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      #5366
      Nigel Hyde
      Participant
        @nigelhyde97004
        #62795
        Phil Ashman
        Participant
          @philashman88468
          Nigel,
          This might help.
          Go to the useful tables and data section. I had a similar query for my 5″ Manor. Putting the numbers into the spreadsheet gave a surprisingly low figure for water consumption, butin the end I settled for a 22oz injector, mine has a crosshead pump as well. The loco hasn’t run yet, so whether it’s the right size remains to be seen.
          Phil
          #62823
          61962
          Participant
            @61962
            Nigel,
            Most people put on injectors that are much too big.
            Most 5″ locos are adequately served by an 11 oz injector. The ideal is to have an injector that matches the consumption of the locomotive when operating at normal outputs. On larger locos I would recommend an 11 oz and a 16 or 22 oz and no feed pump. My own 5″ loco, which has a boiler about the same size as Simplex, but with bigger cylinders and wheels, when hauling almost half a ton, could still manage with a smaller injector than the 11 oz that it uses. It has two and no axle pump, and rarely needs the second injector unless the driver has let things get out of hand. It is a tank engine but with most of it’s capacity in the bunker tank, heating of the water is not a problem. Simplex may have difficulties in this area so it will be as well to have the axle pump.
            You should learn to rely on the injector rather than the pump. If you expect to use the injector as an emergency feed, then you will find that when you need it, it won’t perform. The more it’s used the better and more reliable it will become. If the injector is too big then it will fill the boiler rapidly at the expense of boiler pressure, so instead of operating under steady state conditions it will need to be used for short durations to allow the pressure to recover, and operating the loco will become stressful and you will fall back to using the pump.
            My 3 1/2″ locos are also supplied by injectors only and my LNER pacific is capable of running quite long distances with just one of it’s injectors feeding continuously and the water slowly rising in the glass. Incidentally, its injectors, which are slightly smaller than 11 ounce, have been in service for over 25 years with little attention other than an annual clean in a drop of vinegar or kettle descaler and an occasional new steam cone which I machine from bronze rather than brass for longevity. Part of the secret, is check valves which shut cleanly and completely, large fine water filters and a good size steam supply.
            Wishing you well with your loco
            Eddie
            #499322
            David Hague 1
            Participant
              @davidhague1

              I want to fit an injector and have steam manifold and bottom tank connections, but need advice on how to make the feed to boiler connection. The axle pump doesn't appear to be effective, requiring excessive hand pumping. I do not have model engineering experience or workshop facilities or experience, but could perhaps handle pipework and connections. There does not appear to be any companies offering maintenance services (I run on my garden track in Kendal). I would appreciate advice on how to proceed and appropriate injector size, also any drawings.

              #499404
              Nigel Graham 2
              Participant
                @nigelgraham2

                David –

                I think you need add more information – the gauge and design of the loco would be a good start, so people can assess its needs more specifically.

                Generally though:

                All feeds to the boiler – hand-pump, injector and axle-pump – have a check-valve ("clack", or non-return valve) at the point of entry into the boiler. In miniature sizes these are normally small ball-valves that screw into the bush in the boiler, with a copper of fibre washer to make it steam-tight, and the pipe from the feed device is connected with a union cone and nut.

                Now. re-reading your post suggests to me that your loco's boiler lacks a "spare" inlet bush for the injector clack. I will say that fitting a bush is not impossible, but my saying so probably now has all the club boiler-admirers reading this, muttering into their tea-mugs.

                So, you could siamese the hand-pump and axle-pump into one clack valve to free the other for the injector. I dare say that too would cause some tea-leaf reading, but I have seen it done, you are not usually using both pumps at once, and it's better that the injector has its own pipework including delivery.

                Additionally to the clack-valves on the boiler, a pump also has a non-return valve on its outlet, and another in its inlet. Which leads us to…

                ''''

                … Regarding your loco's axle-pump, if we can assume it is as designed for the loco, then it probably just needs servicing.

                My first guess: Blocked inlet pipe to the pump (choked inlet strainer, dirt or a solder blob in the pipe itself).

                Second: The inlet valve is not seating properly, so some of the water is simply being squirted back the way it came. Possible causes: dirt, scale or corrosion of the ball or seating; worn seating, perhaps also the ball is damaged or worn.

                Thirdly… Does it dribble a lot of water onto the track or try to wash the motion and frames? If so, the delivery side union could be leaking, or too much water is leaking past the ram and out of the back of the pump – a slight seep is not unusual and does lubricate the ram. Causes? First possibility is whatever packing is on the ram (soft packing or O-ring(s) ) has worn down, but should be fairly easy to replace. Second possibility is the ram and/or barrel is/are worn; but only on a loco that has covered many miles. Repairing those involves careful machining.

                If the pump is wrongly sized for the loco then the only way would be a complete replacement; but I would think that a highly unlikely problem if the engine was built to a recognised design.

                There is another possibility I will raise with due respect and delicacy – driving style! It isn't very likely but if you work the loco hard but with lengthy "station" stands, and it has a very free-steaming boiler, you might be making it use more water than the axle-pump alone can compensate for.

                ''''''

                No I don't think there are such maintenance companies but if there were, their costs for the work I've outlined might make you mutter into your tea-mug. Is there not a model-engineering society nearby you could join, albeit with very restricted contact at the moment?

                #499538
                David Hague 1
                Participant
                  @davidhague1

                  Nigel,

                  Many thanks for your constructive advice – The loco is 5 in gauge.

                  This prompted me to put loco on end to inspect the axle pump, which revealed that the eccentric was turning on the axle, with no horizontal pump movement..

                  Removing the strap 'bottom end' revealed the grub screw was not keyed into the axle.

                  Having restored this, the pump is now moving, so I will test at next steaming and if not functioning, revert to your overhaul list.

                  Hopefully this will postpone need for an injector, as locating the clack valve to pursue the feed inlet, is proving difficult.

                  If anyone has any diagrams/ pictures to show these positions, these would help for future reference.

                  I will also pursue membership of the local club at Cinderbarrow, formally Steam Town.

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