Introduction and some beginners questions

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Introduction and some beginners questions

This topic has 7 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 4 October 2010 at 19:04 by Derrick Watson.

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3 October 2010 at 18:36 #5214
Derrick Watson
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@derrickwatson66926
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3 October 2010 at 18:36 #56448
Derrick Watson
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@derrickwatson66926
Hello All,

New to this hobby. Got an Axminster C2 Brushless lathe a couple of weeks ago and been practicing on small pieces of Aluminium and EN1A. So far I’m OK (I think!) with simple turning, facing, boring and parting. So now I’ve decided it’s time for a proper project. Jan Ridders kindly sent me the plans for his one cylinder ‘flame eater’ which might be a bit ambitious but you’ve got to start somewhere.

Anyway now the questions:

Q1) Would I be better using aluminium or EN1A for this. Aluminium seems like it might be easier to work with (from my limited experience) but steel seems like it might be the better material for the piston, cylinder etc?

Q2) I’ve spent a long time thinking about how the wheel is turned. It seems like a standard item on many of these types of engines consisting of a disc with a thinner middle than the outside edge and the centre – hope that description makes some sense. Anyway I can’t figure out how to get the recess cut without some part of the tool fouling on the outer (or inner) diameter / edge. I’ve got a set of HSS tools from here and a set of indexable ones from here.

I guess I’m hoping I don’t need to grind some kind of special tool.

Any help appreciated

Cheers, D.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 04/10/2010 08:15:24
3 October 2010 at 19:05 #56450
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
As its your first engine I would suggest you stick with the materials specified, there are usually reasons why a particular metal is used. For example the CI cylinder will have self lubricating properties due to the graphite content of the iron, the brass flywheel will have a lot more mass than an alloy substitute, etc.

For the flywheel you can either grind up a tool something like a parting tool with more side rake to clear the outer rim or use several tools, pointed tool along the lathe axis to take out most of the material then change to a boring bar to do the back of the rim, then a turning tool to do the side of the boss or run the lathe in reverse and tackle the boss from the rear with your boring bar.

Have a look at this build diary it shows one way of doing the flywheel, a search of the site should turn up several builds of the licker as its a popular engine

Jason
3 October 2010 at 19:19 #56452
Derrick Watson
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@derrickwatson66926
Ah, hadn’t thought about using the pointed tool. Also thanks for the link to the diary – looks like it will be an invaluable guide and no doubt save a number of “help” posts from me.
3 October 2010 at 22:33 #56458
Bogstandard
Participant
@bogstandard
Derek,

The first thing you must heed is the advice given by Jason with regards to materials.

Whatever Jan calls for on his plans, use it. On an engine like a flame licker (IMHO, one of the most difficult small engines to get running) the interaction of the materials with each other is critical.

The next most important thing is the running clearances, they should be only just loose enough to run, but still be able to form a decent seal, plus friction really does have to be kept to a minimum. I spent hours of hand lapping the piston and cylinders together to get things just right. That pays off in not having to use any lubricants and thus friction and later gumming up of the works. Flame lickers invariably only just have enough power to turn themselves over whilst running, so friction can be your worst enemy.

After it is built, and you are happy with everything, getting it to run can be a nightmare for someone without experience of this type of engine. Just using old meths as a fuel can prevent it running, having the burner in the wrong position is the most often cause of refusing to run, being 1/4mm out of position can mean it not running, as is not having the cylinder at the correct temperature. Except for the duff meths, the rest is purely by trial and error. If you are lucky, it will start almost straight away, but there are people who have made these engines exactly to plan, and have never succeeded in getting them to run.

This is a twin cylinder version I made by using two of Jan’s designed single cylinders, made as a handed pair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyrWRBoC-2c

Bogs
4 October 2010 at 07:22 #56463
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
I agree with Bogs about the difficulty of getting thes motors to run, I have one that I built from a diagram in ME from 17 April 1970 (Theres a copy of the diagram in the photo album), it took quite a while to get going*. I built one of jans’ ones but its not going yet.

Keep away from aluminium for cylinders and pistons, cast irons the thing. I need to remake the cylinder on mine, I’v got a bit of cast iron big enough to make a liner, and I may make the outer barrel with the fins out of aluminium. If nothing else these motors, and stirling engines show us which materials run together with the least friction, also the effect of heat on various parts.

*The diagram is all I had to build this motor. Ian S C
4 October 2010 at 07:34 #56464
Sam Stones
Participant
@samstones42903
As of 5:30pm on Monday 4th Oct ’10, the RH side of the postings is hidden.

This appears to be a recurrent problem with certain sources of text.

Regards,

Sam
4 October 2010 at 19:04 #56478
Derrick Watson
Participant
@derrickwatson66926
Thanks all for the advice, although perhaps fortunately I’m actually not too worried about whether it runs or not. The main thing I hope to achieve is to get to know how to use the lathe better and gain some general experience. If it ends up looking like an engine then that would be a bonus, if it ends up running as well then that would be a double bonus! (as you can see my expectations are low).

Either way I’ll let you know how it works out – although will no doubt be a slow build.
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