Lathes??

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Lathes??

This topic has 27 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 25 October 2010 at 19:30 by Sub Mandrel.

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29 May 2010 at 19:28 #52268
Malc
Participant
@malc
Hi All,

I’m new at this forum lark but I would be grateful of a few opinions. I am considering buying a small lathe. I don’t have a specific job in mind for it but numerous times in the past I have muttered “If only I had a lathe this job would be a doddle”! So, as I have now retired my first idea was to buy an old lathe and renovate it as a project. However, having looked on ebay I am amazed at the prices being paid for what seem to be heaps of rusty metal. Also, (not knowing a lot about lathes) I would prefer to talk to a real person who has used the lathe before I part with my cash. Initially I was interested in the Unimat lathe and then saw one of the Sieg C1 (Chinese cheapo) machines which I am told is of a similar size to the Unimat. This was the first time I had seen an actual machine and I was immediately struck by their size – they were far smaller than I had envisaged. My original idea was to buy a lathe that could be stored away when not in use and then lifted on to the bench when needed, but having seen the Sieg C1 I felt that the Sieg C3 lathe was as small as I dared to go even though I have limited room. So, do I buy an old lathe to renovate or a newer more compact “Chinese cheapo”? The mind boggles! I would be grateful for your comments.
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29 May 2010 at 19:28 #5079
Malc
Participant
@malc
29 May 2010 at 20:10 #52271
Dunc
Participant
@dunc
While I now have larger equipment, I “cut my teeth” on a C3 (aka mini-lathe) equivalent and I still have it ready to use. There is a newer version with a more powerful – and simplified – motor/drive assembly that may address the torque issue at low speeds. Dave Fenner has a look at it in Model Engineers’ Workshop (MEW) #163 (An Improved Mini-Lathe from Sieg). Incidentally, the same author wrote an excellent series of articles in MEW of numerous improvements to the (original) lathe beginning around Dec 2007-Jan 2008 – I think.Visit http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/reviews/C3_Articles.html to read part 1 of the series.

These writings were collected into a book in the Workshop series; see http://www.myhobbystore.com

Another extensive resource is http://www.mini-lathe.com

There is also a Yahoo group dedicated to the machine at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/7x12minilathe/

Of course, only you can decide what is too big or small. Above this lathe, size/weight begin to increase substantially ( mini = 40 Kg; next up:100 mm center height = 100+ Kg) – tends to restrict mobility.

As I am in Canada I can’t provide any direct comments about where to buy. These forums have a number of advertisers and a copy of MEW should provide many more. The usual disclaimers, please.
29 May 2010 at 23:04 #52278
Gone Away
Participant
@goneaway
I’ve had a Chinese minilathe for 5 or 6 years now and I’ve done a lot with it. There is an adage in various minilathe groups on Yahoo and other places that you have to treat it as a “kit of parts” which I think is very true. It is unlikely that it will be satisfactory out of the box and you should reckon on spending quite some time finishing, adjusting and making small mods before you turn out any serious work. (There is a lot of info on this kicking around the web).

However … a year or so back I found a “heap of metal” in the form of an old Myford ML7. I stripped it completely, refurbished it and repainted. I also had to find a few replacement parts. I equipped it with a 3 phase drive system. It’s now just about there – in fact, I’ve had it running and actually made a new toolpost for it on it. I think I can say without doubt that when I’m through, this will replace the minilathe completely. There’s simply no comparison – the minilathe is a bit of a “toy” beside it.
29 May 2010 at 23:27 #52279
Chris Trice
Participant
@christrice43267
You generally get what you pay for. I’d recommend getting the largest lathe you can afford. If space is a premium but you still need a lathe with some grunt, consider a second hand quality lathe like a Myford ML10. Bide your time and you can pick these up on eBay with a good smattering of accessories for around £500 (there’s a couple on there now). If you need something more portable then look at the smaller lathes from the far east but as mentioned, the quality and finish may need some attention. You pays your money and takes your choice.
1 June 2010 at 16:27 #52331
Malc
Participant
@malc
Hi All,

Many thanks for your replies to my beginers question “Lathes??” You comments are welcomed, I have made a note of all of them and am still shopping around.

Thanks again,
15 June 2010 at 20:35 #52683
Gray62
Participant
@gray62
If you are considering the ‘chinese’ option, have a look at both warco http://warco.co.uk and chester http://chesteruk.net. They both offer small lathes at exeptionally good value. I have experience of bothe companies and can vouch for their after sales service and sound advice. If you are looking for something in the Myford series 7 size, then the warco 918 or BV20 are good options as are the chester 920 or DB10.

It all depends on what you want to do and what you expect of the machine. there is not a lot to beat an original Myford for quality and robustness but you get what you pay for.

I have had both Chester and Warco lathes for many years and have been more than happy with their capabilities, but I still desire an original ML7 with the Tri Leva system as that is what I first used as an apprentice and it has a nostalgic appeal.
15 June 2010 at 22:12 #52687
STK2008
Participant
@stk2008
Hi CoalBurner thats all so very help full to me as I intend to purchase a lathe and a mill when funds permit.

I was looking at the chester lathes and mills and they look good.

So you would say they have a good build quality and are very accurate?.

cheers
16 June 2010 at 19:52 #52700
Martin W
Participant
@martinw
Hi

Just to re-iterate what ‘CoalBurner’ said I have had machines from both Chester and Warco and their customer support is excellent. With Chester I sent a couple of pictures of the part I was less than satisfied with and received by return of post a new item.

Due to space limitations I have Chester DB7V lathe and a Warco WM-14, new style, Mill. The little lathe has been brilliant and after a few minor adjustments it performs very well and seems to be very accurate; the only thing I have changed is the indexing tool post for a quick change tool post bought from RDG. Its the Dixon style post aimed at the Myford market. This improved the turning performance and I can comfortably part off EN1 steel rods in excess in 30mm diameter. As yet I haven’t put the mill through its paces but it seems to run very well and having read the Grizzly manuals for a similar mill done the recommended running/bedding in procedures.

Cheers

Martin
8 August 2010 at 14:06 #54105
AndyB
Participant
@andyb47186
I always follow these comparison topics with interest.

I have a collection of Drummond lathes and am a member of the Drummond Lathes forum.

A posting put on the other day sums up my feelings entirely; whether you agree or not, it is the principal that many share.

“When I got my M type it was because it was the only one close to me which I
could recover within an hours’ drive in the third world enclave known as
Scotland, where I reside.

I had read up on it and the Drummond M was noted for its “stiffness” and its
relative reliability.
Hence there are quite a few left, ebay always has a Drummond x, y or z so I
raced off and got it and was happy to get a ‘decent’ lathe.

However I had not realised just how good these old ladies are, they grow with
you as you get better, and the reason there are still so many about is because
they really are as tough as old boots and were built to perform.

A recent raid for scrap got me a big billet of steel which I started to machine
and the 3/8 hss just blunted itself after a couple of seconds.
On closer inspection I realised that I had a big chunk of stainless steel and
the skin was as tough as anything I’ve ever had a go at.

However once a carbide tool was brought into action the de-skinning commenced, a
fight the Drummond won, and then a rather oversized clamping set I bought in
error was used to bolt it to the saddle and a big hole was bored right through
the middle of this chunky workpiece.

The old girl really gives me what I need from a lathe, and she’s 1944 vintage.
Got a good almost unmarked spare bed too, when I wear this one out…though I
may be pushing up the daisies before that happens.

I could go ‘modern’ but Drummond really built these things to take on all
comers, including father-time.

The journey continues.”

I thought it would be of interest to those wondering how best to spend their hard-earned that there are further alternatives than the simple East vs West argument.

My 1948 M (built by Myford by then) is an absolute dream to use; I also have a 1927 M (built by Drummond) that is treadle driven for my bit for the environment, and it is the same.

My Drummond B’s of 1914 and 1919 are just as good though the addition of an M topslide and tool-holder makes them better than original…and guess what? the parts are all inter-changeable: cross-slide, topslide, changewheels, tailstock, just not the headstock!

If it means anything else, SWMBO loves them too, for their age and beauty, so has no issues with me spending time with them! Bonus!

Andy
8 August 2010 at 17:37 #54109
Ian Abbott
Participant
@ianabbott31222
In 1975, I noticed a Randa Model A longbed in a corner of my next door neighbour’s garage, I gave him £12 for the thing and I’m still using it. It’s travelled around Canada and back to the UK. Sturdy doesn’t quite say it, it’s accurate and will swing 9″ dia. in the gap, with just under two feet between centres. At about 90 years old, it has no frills, but it does have all its thread cutting gears, low speed reduction and I can carry it under my arm.

At Torbay steam fair today, there were the usual flat bed lorries and stalls with all kinds of used tools and general junk, I picked up an old 115v Craftsman 7 1/2″ circular saw for a fiver, no lathes though. However next weekend is the Kingsbridge Working Machinery meet, if you’re in South Devon, last year there was a trailer with lathes, profile grinders, drills, you name it. See ME a couple of issues ago, (the one with the Massey tractor on the front) there’s a picture of what you can get at these meets.

Ian
5 October 2010 at 10:55 #56513
Howard Jones
Participant
@howardjones35282
I use an Australian Hercus of 1954 vintage.

This Hercus is I believe a parts interchangeable licence built clone of the Southbend Lathe. I find it to be one of the most wonderfully ergonomic pieces of tooling I’ve ever experienced.

I notice that the english love their Myford’s but the ML7 is a dinky toy compared to the more capable Hercus/SouthBend. 4 1/2inch or 9 inch swing depending on whether you speak radius or diameter makes this lathe far more useful than the smaller Myford.

There is a Southbend advertised on the ME website for 750. gods if you guys dont snaffle that one up you’re missing something good.

but …. any lathe is better than no lathe. all of them can be repaired or modified to make them useful. if the lathe you have is missing something make it.
5 October 2010 at 10:57 #56514
Howard Jones
Participant
@howardjones35282
I use an Australian Hercus of 1954 vintage.

This Hercus is I believe a parts interchangeable licence built clone of the Southbend Lathe. I find it to be one of the most wonderfully ergonomic pieces of tooling I’ve ever experienced.

I notice that the english love their Myford’s but the ML7 is a dinky toy compared to the more capable Hercus/SouthBend. 4 1/2inch or 9 inch swing depending on whether you speak radius or diameter makes this lathe far more useful than the smaller Myford.

There is a Southbend advertised on the ME website for 750. gods if you guys dont snaffle that one up you’re missing something good.

but …. any lathe is better than no lathe. all of them can be repaired or modified to make them useful. if the lathe you have is missing something make it.
5 October 2010 at 12:20 #56520
John Coates
Participant
@johncoates48577
My Barker 5″ x 24″ is of 1947 vintage and as my voyage down the road of newbieness progresses I find it has more capability than I realise. Having got past the early learning phase (I hope) of smashing cutting tools into the rotating chuck or blunting them, I am enjoying the benefit of a very rigid and sturdy lathe as I start to actually make things.

The down side is its size and weight (quarter to half a ton it felt like) but it’s in the garage and I had two hefty mates to get it set up.

Got joined by a Chester Champion mill (heavy bugger to lift on my own but I did it!) within 6 months and that’s my engineering set up complete for now

Must admit the advice on here has got me going further and faster than the tools I’m using but they are extremely capable as I find out every time I use them
5 October 2010 at 22:12 #56545
ady
Participant
@ady
A unimat with some tooling is the best start, probbly a unimat three.

Try and get a decent one with a threading kit.

The big advantage of the unimat is if you find lathing is not for you then you can pack it back in its box and flog it on ebay for pretty much what it cost you.

And unimats are small enough to post, which gives a seller a massive advantage.

In my own case my sl doesn’t get used much now, but I don’t want to part with it, it taught me the basics of what I was getting myself into, like…dirty…dangerous…steel splinters in your fingers…tool failure from overtightening…why the *!?K won’t this cut!…aw no! it WOBBLES!(after two days of work)…those little pleasures of the job we all love.

Be aware that if you get the bug you will become a hopeless addict, you will also be a lot more certain of the sort of lathe you will want if you upgrade.

chicken and egg stuff is never cut and dried, I have found that the best approach is to use the simplest fastest route to what you want, then you can refine your criteria once you get some experience.
22 October 2010 at 17:45 #57285
Steam of Steel
Participant
@steamofsteel
having started with a Southbend and various other used Lathes some years ago I came across the company Klippfeld from Austria. Mr Klippfeld makes Lathes and also supplies these in kit form with crytical components pre assembled a littlle chaper for model engineers.

The pricing at the time was reasonable thus I purchased a K 10 a and it has given great satisfaction over many years. Spares if needed are available and they have a good website and a wide rabge of accesorys.

This can be a wothwhile alternative to a restoration project or a Chinese lathe.

http://www.klippfeld.at
22 October 2010 at 18:29 #57288
Axel Bentell
Participant
@axelbentell
very interesting link Gaetcke! Kippfeld claim no imports from asia, but they look alot like them! Are the castings made in Austria?
22 October 2010 at 18:45 #57289
Steam of Steel
Participant
@steamofsteel
I don`’t have any information on that but there is a simple way to find out, just give Mr Klippfeld a call and ask. At the time when I bought my lathe they were very kind and helpful. A good freind also purchased a lathe, he made some suggestions at the time to improve the design haveng discussed this with Mr Klippfeld senior the altered parts promptly arrived by post. This was back in 98 so some water has gone down the river since, I still have my Lathe and it works like the first day.
22 October 2010 at 18:49 #57290
Chris Trice
Participant
@christrice43267
Not sure I’d entirely agree with the Unimat 3 recommendation. It’s too small to do anything of any worthwhile size. I think you’d quickly outgrow it. Most lathes hold their value so you could still invest in a larger one. You could buy a Myford ML2/4 for the same price as a Unimat 3. Don’t get a Unimat SL. The bed is two flexy steel bars rather than a rigid iron bed (at least the 3 has a proper iron bed) and it’s driven by stretchy unreinforced elastic bands. Both positively invite chatter. Most serious engineers consider the Unimat range as toys.

Edited By Chris Trice on 22/10/2010 18:56:00

Edited By Chris Trice on 22/10/2010 18:56:26
22 October 2010 at 21:02 #57298
Axel Bentell
Participant
@axelbentell
Why do so many feel they need to put down Unimat size lathes!!? “Not any worthwhile size”!? C´mon, 80% of all my needs (and I´m not a miniaturist) is served by a Sherline 4410, its a superb little tabletop machine, and its sold in heaps, so lots of ppl must like them and find them worthwhile! I bet you most would do fine with a table top machine, if they gave them the attention they deserve.
23 October 2010 at 10:42 #57315
Chris Trice
Participant
@christrice43267
Well, it obviously depends what size work you want to do. A larger lathe can remove metal far quicker than a small one. The motor has more grunt which means you can make deeper cuts on larger diameter work. I’d argue that 95% of people would agree with me once they’d worked on a larger lathe. I’m not saying the Unimat 3 can’t do good work (if taking longer to do it) but it IS very limiting. Try cutting a piece of 1″ stainless steel on a Unimat. The motor will grind to a halt almost as soon as the tool touches. They may sell well but that’s primarily because they’re cheap and aimed at beginners who don’t appreciate the difference. I’ve got an SL which I inherited from my brother and I must say it put me off lathework for a long time until I bought my first “proper” lathe. By definition, the design of it is based around cheapness (mazak cast base and two steel rails), not because it’s an ideal layout. You can put your finger on the tool post and flex it up and down. The 3 is obviously much better but it still is very limiting. If OO gauge railways is your thing or Scalextric, then go for a Unimat. If you want a quiet portable lathe for use indoors but with a much more useful capacity, then look at something larger like a second hand Emco Compact 5 or one of the newer far eastern lathes.
23 October 2010 at 10:47 #57316
Chris Trice
Participant
@christrice43267
And before anyone suggests that I’m sizest, I also have a Cowells lathe which by contrast is superb and has a powerful motor although it still struggles with anything above small and won’t remove metal at anywhere near the same rate. I therefore reiterate, it’s best to go for the largest lathe you can accomodate in your situation.
23 October 2010 at 12:00 #57330
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
Mini Lathe.

6″ x 4″ x 1 1/4″

Nuff said?

Neil
23 October 2010 at 13:02 #57337
Howard Jones
Participant
@howardjones35282
Hey Stubs

….sorry ….Sir Mandrel

dont you know that you dont open a suitcase with a lathe.

there are two little clips on the top and then the lid hinges.

(well you posted the picture of the suitcase stuck to your faceplate )
24 October 2010 at 00:45 #57365
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Super Adept, used mine just the other day, wanted a small bit turned and did’nt want to unload the big lathe, just the thing, keep the tool sharp and take small cuts. Ian S C
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