HELP Wanted! Cutting Metal – But By What Means?

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HELP Wanted! Cutting Metal – But By What Means?

This topic has 34 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 10 December 2009 at 15:33 by Gordon W.

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30 November 2009 at 23:47 #45765
ChrisH
Participant
@chrish
I am going to have to obtain some means of mechanically cutting metal but by what means I am undecided. I would appreciate any views or opinions on what others have used and the pros & cons of their choice. Times are hard (!) so a low cost option for me is a major factor, as is the space it will take up as I have but a small workshop, and if it has to be lifted onto a workbench then weight is also a factor (I’m not getting younger!).

So far I have considered:

Hacksaw. Using a hand hacksaw is hard work and for me it’s a no-no. A power hacksaw is available, Silverline do a power hacksaw, which looks like a hand one but with a motor for £50. Sieg do one which looks similar but has a vice built-in for £330 – some difference! But are either any good – both use ‘normal’ hacksaw blades? The Silverline would have to be used with a vice on the bench, ones with a built in vice could cut outdoors if portable enough. Of course there are more ‘professional’ ones, but it’s cost and space again. What else is there?

Bandsaw. There are a number of bandsaws on the market, all seem to take up a fair amount of room and start from about £220-ish so not that cheap. The bench one I saw seems heavy. The Clark at £220 offers horizontal and vertical cutting, but is the vertical mode good and useful, or just a bit more than just a gimmick? A bandsaw be used outside, keeping the workshop clean, but needs a fair bit of space to be stowed it would seem. How do others cope with it in a small workshop?

ChopSaws. I know these are good, but not too cheap – the Makita seems the cheapest at £190-ish – but I know chopsaws are also very noisy. Could also be used outside but the noise could/would upset the neighbours.

So all you old hands at this hobby, what do you use and why and what would you recommend?

ChrisH
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30 November 2009 at 23:47 #4869
ChrisH
Participant
@chrish
1 December 2009 at 01:00 #45769
Jim Whetren
Participant
@jimwhetren72358
Hello Chris,

For what it’s worth, I use the Metal cutting Bandsaw from Axminster. (£165 when I bought it; now on offer at £199)

It does not have the vertical facility but it is supplied with a self assembly metal stand which with the addition of some castors from B&Q, allows it to be easilly pulled out from against the wall to use it.

It also has an excellent quick set cam lock vice which I have used with a small mod to slice 1/8″ off 3/4″ square blocks stood on end. I have also cut a 1/2″ length of 2″ Dia. MS in half. The facing cut needed to clean up is less than 0.5mm.

I find this meets all my sawing needs. I have never had the blade come off and I don’t use coolant. (usual disclaimer)

Best regards,

Jim
1 December 2009 at 07:27 #45770
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Warco do quite a compact Bench mounted one, and the usual 4×6 that most other suppliers do.

Jason
1 December 2009 at 08:13 #45772
Michael Cox 1
Participant
@michaelcox1
Hi Chris,

I cannot comment on the motorised hacksaw because I have no experience of them.

I have an Axminster 4 x 6 bandsaw that cost around £105 2 years ago. It is very good and copes with all my cutting needs. I do use the saw in the vertical mode but would recommend that you throw away the flimsy saw table supplied and make sometig more solid. However, this saw is big with a footprint of about 1200 x 600. It is quiet in use and it does not make much mess at all.

Before buying the bandsaw I used an old, cheap mitre saw fitted with a 9″ metal cutting abrasive disc to convert it to a chopsaw. This is extremely moisy and grit and dust go everywhere. You cannot use it anywhere near machine tools such as a lathe. In addition it is a fire hazard. Hot sparks shoot out a considerable distance. Definitely for outside use only. The abrasive discs do not last long.

I also have a 4 1/2″ angle grinder with a stand. Both came from Aldi /Lidl and cost only a few £s. I use this with Norton thin metal cutting discs for cutting hardened steel but the maximum size of material that can be cut it limited to circa 1″ thickness. As above it is noisy, dirty and a fire hazard.

Mike
1 December 2009 at 09:04 #45774
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
I have a 6×4 bandsaw bought from WARCO, needed careful setting up and extra lub in the gearbox, but will cut all day. Still on the original blade guide bearings but not for much longer. Careful adjustment of the cutting weight will ensure longer blade life. Buy decent blades, I personally buy them by the 100ft reel and weld my own. I agree about the flimsy table but it has had little use.
1 December 2009 at 11:04 #45778
charadam
Participant
@charadam
I use a Maktec (cheapo Makita) 14″ abrasive chop saw. Use it outdoors and with ear defenders!

It cost me about £70 4 years ago. Discs can be had for about £3 a pop.

There’s one on Ebay for £60 but you will need a 110V transformer.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 01/12/2009 13:49:44
1 December 2009 at 11:48 #45782
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
You don’t mention your Lathe ChrisH? If you look at some of the old adverts for Myford, you could buy attachments to cover virtually every “Garden shed” need. One I remember was a circular saw one for wood cutting, another a Fileing set up, can’t think they would have left metal cutting out.

Regards Ian.

Advert overlap, Again, at least my BIG post chucked them out of the way.

Edited By Circlip on 01/12/2009 11:50:02

Edited By Circlip on 01/12/2009 11:50:22
2 December 2009 at 04:20 #45811
russell
Participant
@russell
has anyone used the recip. tpye saw (eg, sawzall) – mine doesnt seem to have any provision for mounting in any way, but i was thinking it could turn into a poor mans power hacksaw. (AUD70 ex aldi)

regards

russell
2 December 2009 at 07:32 #45814
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
The problem with a Recip’ saw is that because the blade is only held at one end it will tend to wander. Also the short stroke will have a job clearing swarf from the cut

Jason
2 December 2009 at 10:42 #45815
ChrisH
Participant
@chrish
Thank you to all who have offered advice on saws.

It seems clear that a bandsaw is what I need, a bench one I think, for smallest space.

The Warco one at £142 looks very good, so does the Axminster one but it is another £80 or so at £225, BUT, the Axminster does 4″x6″ against 3.5″x5″ for the Warco, and looks as if it may be a little more substantial.

Anyone with experience of either, and is the slightly larger capacity of the Axminster worth the extra eighty quid do you think?

ChrisH
2 December 2009 at 10:52 #45816
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
If you mounted the recip saw vertical-motor at the top,above a table for the work,that would solve the swarf problem.IAN S C
2 December 2009 at 12:47 #45823
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
I still think you would clog the teeth on anything over 1″ stock as the stroke of the blade is quite short compared with a power hacksaw, so the swarf will just get rubbed back and forth, gravity won’t pull it down out of the cut. You would also have the proiblem of the blade trying to lift the work off the table if it was mounted on the top as they cut on the pull.

Only you know what sizes you will need to be cutting so its hard to say if the extra capacity is worth it

Jason

Edited By JasonB on 02/12/2009 12:48:46
2 December 2009 at 13:17 #45824
Geoff Theasby
Participant
@geofftheasby
I fancy making some wind chimes as in ME recently.

I have some 3mm brass sheet which should serve for the striker and weight, but how to cut a circle from a large sheet?

I could use a hacksaw, files and lots of elbow grease, but might it be worth while to take it to a laser cutting company and ask them to cut out a circle from it for me?

Any idea of the likely cost? Can you even cut brass this way?

Regards

Geoff
2 December 2009 at 16:24 #45829
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
It can be done on the lathe either by sandwiching between a disc of wood held in the lathe and another to apply pressure from the tailstock with light cuts. If there is a hole in the ctr of the disc then add a pin which will help stop it going AWOL id you get it wrong and have a dig in.

A treppaning tool in the brill or mill will also do the job.

Jason
2 December 2009 at 18:12 #45832
mgj
Participant
@mgj
I agree with Jason – 4jaw or faceplate with dogs and trepan it.

As for the larger view. I have an Axminster (Arctrade euro do hte same modle I think if you prefer red over white) power hacksaw which is superb.Costs a little more than the cheapest bandsaws, very good for bar and square, not so hot for sheet, but adequate if you use Jasons clamping suggestion ot stop the (thicker) sheet flexing..

bandsaws offer more flexiblity in use I think, but as modellers we don’t often cut sheet, and when I do i just put it in the mill and use a slitting saw. Other stuff I use a proper sheetsaw – i’ve had to use it a couple of times in 5 years, so on that basis the performance of the power hack per £ spent is pretty good.

Cuts straight, evenly and the blade doesn’t jump the sprockets, and replacements are not expensive!

A high grade top end bandsaw is a different thing.
2 December 2009 at 20:38 #45836
Geoff Theasby
Participant
@geofftheasby
Thanks guys, but I don’t have enough swing in the lathe or mill to cut a 7″ disc.

(Unimat 3 + milling attachment)

Maybe I could do it in the pillar drill? Hmmm!

Regards

Geoff
2 December 2009 at 20:45 #45837
martin leslie
Participant
@martinleslie67699
I have the Warco bandsaw and with a small modification to the vice, and the use of bi-metal blades, can’t fault it. Spend some time setting it up and it can cut with suprising accuracy. I shortened the stand by 5 inches, put wheels on the back and it sits under my workbench. Just pull it out when needed. I have just cut 4 inches off the end of a length of full size railway line and it was 25 thou out or parrellel although it did take nearly 35 minutes. Sure beats using a hacksaw!!
2 December 2009 at 20:50 #45838
wheeltapper
Participant
@wheeltapper
You would need a really slow speed to trepan a 7″ disc.

the only chart I have to hand suggests 95 rpm for 4″ so for 7″ you’d need about 15 or less.

not many pillar drills go that slow, they aren’t built for that sort of use.

you would be better off drilling holes round the circumference then filing.

just my tuppence worth

cheers

Roy
3 December 2009 at 00:58 #45839
Billy Mills
Participant
@billymills
Hi Metalworkers

My vote would be for the H/V bandsaw fitted with a bimetal blade. They are capable of chopping through thick lumps that you just would not want to hacksaw. With a few simple additions you can also do some quite fine sawing.

The vertical mode is useful for some sheet work however the wide blade rules out cutting mild steel jigsaws.

Do resist the temptation to fit a “metal” blade to a “woodworking” bandsaw if you want to saw mild steel. The metal cutting bandsaw really is a different animal, the frame is much stiffer to cope with the blade tension and thickness, the very important guides are much heavier and the blade speed slower.

The MachineMart website has a downloadable PDF manual for their CBS45MD which also includes the adjustment procedure.

When sawing metals for more than a min the blade can get very hot, I always use some kind of cutting/cooling fluid to extend the blade life and to be able to pick up the sawn parts after sawing without first aid.

After you have had a red/white/blue/green bandsaw around it becomes one of those tools that you don’t want to be without when chopping a stock length of 50mm M/S into 30 bits 75mm long.

Regards,

Alan
3 December 2009 at 09:36 #45845
Gordon W
Participant
@gordonw
some more on cutting:_ I’ d love a power hacksaw but… For heavy stuff I use angle grinder, smaller sections a 4 1/2″ grinder with thin cutting blade. brass sheet etc a jig saw, mark- out both sides and put grease or cutting oil on underside, then you can see the line to cut to. For accurate work hand saw, does’nt really take that long, and less cleaning up.
4 December 2009 at 11:03 #45865
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
It’s possible to build a power hacksaw from vertually scrap metal and a 1/4hp motor,and a bit of imagination,I did and used 12″ industrial grade blades,but you could make it to use ordenary hacksaw blades.I dismanteled my one after I bought a 4 1/2″ h&v bandsaw,wish I’d kept it.IAN S C
5 December 2009 at 10:09 #45910
Gordon W
Participant
@gordonw
IanSC thanks, I have thought about building a power hacksaw, the only ones I’ve seen or used are big industrial ones, can’t get my head round making the slidey bits in small scale without milling gear etc.. Have tried the web, only one I could find looked very “messy”, and not very easy to make work. Any sources? I’m not bothered about looks really.
5 December 2009 at 11:05 #45912
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Gordon neither did I now how to get round the problem of the”slidy”bits so I didn’t,instead I made two connecting rods about 6″ long and suspended the frame with these from a 2″x1/2″ bar that was pivoted at the rear of the machine,and the frame was attached to a crank with a 3″ through,the bed was a piece of 5″x2″ channel.With the cranks the bar over the top rose up and down as the saw reciprocated.Ball races in each end of the con rods,and in the rotating parts.IAN S C
5 December 2009 at 11:29 #45915
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
There are details of Westbury’s one on this very site

Here

Jason
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