workshop and tooling requirements

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workshop and tooling requirements

This topic has 15 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 22 November 2009 at 19:36 by mgj.

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21 November 2009 at 16:33 #4853
Stephen Morrison 1
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@stephenmorrison1
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21 November 2009 at 16:33 #45428
Stephen Morrison 1
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@stephenmorrison1
Hi I am about to construct a small 8ft*8ft workshop onto the end of my garage then kit it out for model making.

Any advice on workshop layout tooling requirements would be appreciated.

I have looked at mini lathe Clarke CL300M and thought it looked slightly on small size are these size lathes capable or will I regret 12 months down road and need to upgrade to one slightly larger bearing in mind my small workshop which I also will require other kit like vertical mill, bench grinder and assembly area etc.

I retire in about 2 years and intend to take this hobby up.

Thanks Steve
21 November 2009 at 17:07 #45430
mgj
Participant
@mgj
Keep the grinding kit well away form other machine tools.

As for lathes and mills. You have to decide what you want to make, and unfortunately, you have to decide that before you start, because its kind of non reversible. (Except at some cost)

There are opinions as to whether you want to go bigger or smaller – IMO, up to a point bigger is better, and for the one lathe man, a 3 1/2″ lathe is good choice because there is very big range of models made for such a size of machine. You can also make small stuff on it too, but it isn’t the best for small stuff, but you can get by with adapters.

Still decide what you can afford and the kind of thing you want to make, and then go for the machinery. And you have to be specific. You want to make 3″ – 4″ traction engines you need biggish (by our standards) machinery. You want to make 2″ ones or 5″ gauge locos, then a 3 1/2″ lathe is fine. You want to make clocks and the like, or smaller I/c engines, then you can well afford to go smaller.

It might be a good idea to visit some of the shows and look at models of a type you like to get a feel for the size of bits you need to swing. Very often you can talk to the makers of the models, and they will tell you what it was made on. Look at pix on this forum and ask the maker

My first buy list-

Lathe and vertical slide.

Grinder to sharpen tools.

Some kind of dividing gear (can make own)

Pillar drill.

Small linisher to do everything.

Then a mill.
21 November 2009 at 17:22 #45431
Peter Gain
Participant
@petergain89847
Hi Stephen,

First decide which type and size of model you intend to build. Will you build small ICEs or 5″ g locos? Go for the largest machines that you can house. A mill/drill though not essential makes life in the shop so much easier. Setting up for milling in the lathe can prove rather laborious. A lathe is intended for continuous cutting, a mill is built for intermittent cutting. The moment that you set up for milling you will find a need to turn a part. Grinder, essential. Of one thing you may be sure, which ever size shop and machine size that you settle for, next year it will be too small! Make sure that you insulate your shop.

Peter Gain.
21 November 2009 at 17:55 #45432
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
“a 3 1/2″ lathe is good choice because there is very big range of models made for such a size of machine“

Just be aware that the 3 1/2″ machine that a lot of these were designed for was a Myford that can swing just over 9″ in the gap. If you want to do stationary engines a lot of them are made with 9″ Flywheels, same goes with 2″ traction engines there are a lot with 9″ or there abouts flywheels and final drive gears.

Jason
21 November 2009 at 18:27 #45435
Stephen Morrison 1
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@stephenmorrison1
Hi again.

Thanks for all the info and fast reply my main interest early days though would be construction stationary type engines.

which as you all pointed out this will be the factor in the lathe size would the Warco BV-20 and Warco -240 be suitable and what are advantages disadvantages with the variable speed type.
21 November 2009 at 20:16 #45443
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
The 240 would allow you to do 9″ Flywheels so most of the available stationary engines will be within its capability.

The other thing with the Warco, Chester, etc lathes unlike the clark is that they come with 4-jaw chuck, faceplate and steadies, all of which are essential.

The Variable speed lathes do lack a bit of torque when turning large diameters with teh motor running slowly but this just means you need to take a slightly shallower depth of cut. The main advantages are they usually have a lower speed than the belt drives and teh variable speed is so easy to adjust. I’ve had the Waeco 280VF for just over a year and the variable is nicer to use than the geared head that I had for 20yrs before.

Jason
21 November 2009 at 21:05 #45447
Stephen Morrison 1
Participant
@stephenmorrison1
Thanks Jason for reply it’s a mine field looking over all the various site and lathes.

I also think the variable speed will be the type i will go for once workshop built and no doubt their electonic circuits this day will be reliable.

I have noticed a number of lathes from different Co are probaly all built by same Co with miner changes and colour scheme.

So maybe its the supply outlet I need to be most aware of as looked on E bay also but price saving may not out way warranty.

Also point I need to know imperial or metric my early years in engineering some 40 years ago was all imperial and i would be more comfortable working in this but should i change to metric.

Thanks again

Steve
22 November 2009 at 00:52 #45451
GoCreate
Participant
@gocreate
Hi Steve>>

Regarding metric or imperial, you might want to consider whether you will mostly cut metric or imperial threads. I bought an imperial lathe for the imperial lead screw as most of my threads are imperial, this allows me to use the thread dial indicator when screw cutting which is easier. >>

>>

If I was to ever cut a metric thread then I would need to keep the lead screw half nuts engaged and reverse the chuck between cuts to get back to the beginning of the thread. Not a problem but not so pleasurable.>>

>>

If you are OK with both systems I don’t think it matters which you choose, if you are following published designs then you are more likely to cut imperial threads and a metric system will mean allot of conversion from imperial, an imperial lathe will be more convenient.>>

>>

Going off on a tangent, these days there is a drive to dual dimension drawings, you will need to check dual dimensions as dimensions converted from imperial to metic and rounded can introduce errors. Having said that, when making models you should plan ahead, check drawing dimensions and model dimensions before cutting metal.>>

>>

As it happens my lathe has dual metric and imperial dials, this combined with the imperial lead screw is ideal for me and I am very happy with my choice. >>

while I am happy with both systems to my surprise, I do find myself converting from imperial and using the metric scales. Being a lover of the ‘thou’ I never thought I would do that. >>

>>

Someone is sure to mention DRO.s which are great for working in either system but I think are an un-necessary expense when setting up, better to expand your range of tooling first. If you are cash rich then get DRO’s>
22 November 2009 at 00:59 #45452
GoCreate
Participant
@gocreate
I seem to have lost the end of my post !!!
here is the rest, for what it’s worth.

Being dimensional bi-lingual I do confuse younger people by talking both metric and imperial in the same sentence, its a symptom of having been taught imperial at school and metric at collage, my first day at collage was the day they decided to go ISO. >>

>>

Hope my rambling help>>

Nigel

Edited By tractionengine42 on 22/11/2009 01:01:05
22 November 2009 at 07:36 #45453
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Steve

Having looked again at the Warco 240 I see that the mane is a bit misleading, unlike the others in the range where the name reflects the capacity the 240 WILL ONLY SWING 8″ so this will severely limit your choice of model. I know as my old Emco would also only swing 210mm and I had to resort to getting flywheels machined for me.

Re The similar machines on e-bay, like the Clark they don’t come with 4-jaw, steadies etc. There are a few factories making the “same ” lathe but specs & quality can vary a bit, Warco generally seem a bit better than Chester and I think the e-bay ones are made by Weiss to a similar spec as the Warco. RDG and Engineers Toolroom also do them.

AS TE42 says most models are dimensioned in imperial and the range of fixings and materials from the ME suppliers is 95% imperial

Jason
22 November 2009 at 12:07 #45460
John Haine
Participant
@johnhaine32865
Having owned a couple of lesser lathes I bought a Myford S7 and have never regretted it. If you can stretch to a reasonable used Myford, or something similar such as a Boxford, I would highly recommend it rather than one of the cheaper imports.
22 November 2009 at 15:54 #45468
Stephen Morrison 1
Participant
@stephenmorrison1
Hi Jason,Nigel and John.

Thanks for all the info, regarding Myford John they are a great lathe in fact the 1st lathe i ever worked was a Myford but my budget will not stretch to a good 2nd hand one.

I think they are classed as a 3.5″ size am I correct in thinking the gap bed allows them to swing up to 4.5″ which I have not noticed on any of the Chinese imports the gap bed.

So the Co data on lathes EG 8″ swing over bed is this max dia 8″ one could machine like flange/wheel etc and swing over cross slide as 4.5″ is in fact max dia of long shaft you could turn not very clear or i am reading Co spec incorrect.

Regards

Steve
22 November 2009 at 16:57 #45473
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Thats right

Centre height is centre of lathe spindle to lathe bed and used to describe the capacity of lathes in the UK

Swing is max dia over bed and used on the imported machines and in the US

Height over cross slide is as you say half the diameter of the biggest bar you could turn.

The gap will usually only accomodate thin items like flywheels etc. The bigger 12″ plus imported lathes tend to have a removable gap piece but not the smaller ones, on the Myford the bed just stops short of the head creating the gap.

As said a Boxford or Colchester bantum will be a useful machine and they usually go for less than a Myford if you want to stick with UK iron. The 3 phase converters will give you the benifit of variable speed if you don’t get a single phase one.

Jason
22 November 2009 at 18:15 #45479
Stephen Morrison 1
Participant
@stephenmorrison1
Thanks Jason.

No I have no problem with Chinese iron and I was talking to a man last week over lathes who has a Boxford but bed and other parts were worn so once he had these reground etc yes ended up with nice lathe but costed him more than planned.

Also noted numerous kit for the likes of Warco and some one will no doubt inform me this is same for Boxford.

Anyway back into my workshop build today and will monitor lathes on E bay to see what price various lathes go for.
22 November 2009 at 19:36 #45488
mgj
Participant
@mgj
Also a lot depends on how you set these lathes up.

Mine is from Engineers Toolroom – the big Chinaman, – and that has been very good indeed, once it was properly aligned.

i think if I were starting now, with limited space, I would buy what is variously sold as the Craftsman lathe. It is 6″, but its quite short. Norton gearbox and kitted out, plus a removable gap bed.It doesn’t have the finest of fine feeds, and the range of screwcutting ihas been slightly limited, but not stupidly so. Belt driven and backgeared. It’ll fit into a similar space as the Myford – little longer , so in an 8 foot workshop if you moved it as far as possible to the right, you’d have 3 foot behind the headstock for long rods.

ETR do one, so do Chester. In terms of capability for the £ its just unbeatable
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