Comments on the Exhibition

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Comments on the Exhibition

This topic has 67 replies, 32 voices, and was last updated 8 January 2011 at 23:11 by Chris Trice.

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31 December 2009 at 19:58 #4382
Mrs a Cobban Cobban
Participant
@mrsacobbancobban
Some thoughts three weeks on
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31 December 2009 at 19:58 #46852
Mrs a Cobban Cobban
Participant
@mrsacobbancobban
I hope that this is the right place to comment on the Exhibition.

Point one: Well done to you all, you have resurrected the Exhibition from the dead. The trade stands were good, the demonstrations excellent and the one lecture that I attended was very informative to a beginner.

The poor points were the models entered and loaned. Where were they?

From the “engineering” point of view, there were some nice exhibits, but the Boats?

Perhaps, you could go back to entries from the whole spectrum of modelling, figures, cars, small locomotives (oo guage), and planes. Surely there must be people mking models of a highest enough standard.

Perhaps, you could talk to the IPMS, and allow them to run their own competition to their rules. (enough of rules they have caused controversy already)

Lets turn the whole thing open to all, and see a modern version of the Exhibitions of yeteryear.

Excellent work, keep going.
31 December 2009 at 20:53 #46853
Peter Gain
Participant
@petergain89847
Yes, an excellent exhibition.

BUT.

Please remember that the exhibition is for “Model Engineering”. Please, no more bits plastic & cardboard models. Whilst such models may be worthy of critical acclaim, they are NOT “Model Engineering“. We had a plethora of plastic models a few years ago, they have their place, but not in an engineering exhibition. Exhibits should be substantially of metal which has been turned, milled, filed, & etc. No more “Blue Peter” models, please.

Peter Gain.
31 December 2009 at 21:36 #46855
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
Hi There

Yes, good quality machined or hand made models from wood and metal etc.

I believe there was a superb locomotive entered a few years ago, perfect in every way then one of the judges opened the firebox door.

Made out of cardboard it was.

regards David
1 January 2010 at 10:35 #46865
Peter Gain
Participant
@petergain89847
Hi,

I remember the cardboard loco, an excellent example of the model maker’s art. BUT. Not model engineering!

Regards, Peter.
1 January 2010 at 10:58 #46870
John Haine
Participant
@johnhaine32865
On the contrary, surely? My father-in-law taught packaging design and was a master of “paper engineering”….making effective complex structures from cardboard is a very specialised technique fully deserving of being described as engineering.
1 January 2010 at 14:15 #46881
Mrs a Cobban Cobban
Participant
@mrsacobbancobban
Yes, I agree with all the comments above, but we need to promote our hobby in all forms. When Model Enginer was first published, aircraft were a rarity, cars were for the few, and pleasure boating was in its infancy.

We now have new materials, and best of all, new ideas. Plastic is here to stay.

Let’s embrace all the disciplines and learn from them.

BUT ABOVE ALL

HAVE FUN MODELLING

Cheers

Peter
18 December 2010 at 17:31 #60730
Chris Trice
Participant
@christrice43267
Genetic engineering is technically ‘engineering’ so it’s not good to get caught up too much in a pedantic discussion about the definition. In broad terms, most people understand what ‘Model Engineering’ means and it doesn’t usually bring cardboard models or plastic kits into mind. Why not origami models? I have no objection to either but the show would become a model show and not a model engineering show. How do you define what qualifies? Hard to quantify but you know it when you see it. Anyone remember a well known pen manufacturer promoting a competition to make models out of old ball point pen bodies? One was a traction engine. Would that count? Amusing and clever, yes, but not what the show is about. I think there is room to broaden the scope a little particularly when you get into radio control model territory which encompasses some model engineering practice but the wider you brush, the thinner the coat of paint.

Edited By Chris Trice on 18/12/2010 17:36:38
18 December 2010 at 17:35 #60731
Chris Trice
Participant
@christrice43267
BTW, I go to the IPMS show at Telford each year and don’t see anyone saying that more model engineering type models should appear when the P in IPMS stands for ‘plastic’. Model Engineering is principly (but not exclusively) about machining metal.
18 December 2010 at 17:59 #60734
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
I once entered a model in MMEX, largely because it was easy for me to get to. With a SIL who works for an international parcel I’m loathe to commit any of my models to a system that expects staff to scan,sort and load 300 parcels an hour onto a lorry!

So how could I enter a model for a show in London, when getting there for one day is hard enough, and attending the first (or even earlier) and last would be too much.

I understand that at one time a foremer editor (Ted Joliffe?) and a companion would make a lazy winding tour down the length of the UK, making various rendevous at services etc. collecting boxed models. The exercise was repeated in reverse after the exhibition.

I can see 101 possible pitfalls (e.g heavy snow or what happens if a modeller doesn’t arrive to collect the model on time), but is there some way of collecting and distributing a wider range of models.

Or you could move the MEX to the Midlands where it should be

Neil
18 December 2010 at 18:08 #60738
Billy Mills
Participant
@billymills
Enjoyed the exhibition but two weeks from Christmas is a bit late in the year. For me the best reason for the trip was the SMEE stand where you can always learn something new. If you had not been to the show before it was easy to miss the models upstairs, perhaps I failed to see the signs?

Regards,

Alan.
18 December 2010 at 18:58 #60743
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
Not just missing the signs?? There were numerous loudspeaker announcements about the Club Stands and the Competition entries being on the first floor. Apart from that, did nobody think to ask anyone? The SMEE members would have known as would most of the Traders, they made it upstairs during their breaks. How do I know? I was a Steward up there.
18 December 2010 at 21:45 #60752
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
Hi There

I did quite a few announcments about the club stands and competition entries upstairs and the ground level 5in. gauge being outside.

regards david
18 December 2010 at 22:40 #60758
Chris Trice
Participant
@christrice43267
I confess I only looked upstairs because I knew from previous years there were exhibits up there. Personally, I rarely pay any attention to tannoy announcements if I’m in the middle of a purchase with a trader. The first thing I looked for was signage by the stairs even if it was just an A4 printed arrow stuck to the wall saying more exhibits upstairs. Didn’t see any but had a nosey anyway. Hope that constitutes constructive feedback.
18 December 2010 at 22:42 #60759
Nicholas Farr
Participant
@nicholasfarr14254
Hi, I had no trouble knowing that there were models upstairs, even the first year it was held at Sandown. As far as content is concerned, I regard “Model Engineering” to be fundementally using metal and the use of metal turning lathes and such assoceated machines, but not totally excluding other materials. But I think it should have some relevance.

As far as the venue and time of year is concerned, I don’t think it will ever suit everybody. When I first started to go to the annual exhibition it was in Olympia (which I’ve favoured most) and was in the first week of January, which for me was ideal, as it was both an easy trip on the train and underground and fitted well into my work schedule. It was held at Olympia for many years, and at least once at Alexadrea Palace. Since its been at Sandown, apart from the two years at Ascot, its now a 300 mile round trip for me. A train journey not being practical time wise, but luckely since the change in venues and a different time of year, my work schedule has not been an issue to be concerned about.

I think if you have an interest in the show you will be able to tolerate when and where it is held, however I appreciate it is not always easy foe everone. I for one don’t have anyone else to consider when attending this or any other exhibition, like many other people do.

Regards Nick.
18 December 2010 at 22:42 #60760
dave cotton
Participant
@davecotton71576
hi had a great time at sandown great job done by all many thanks. was not impressed with the some off the staff on chester stand,while i was looking at a cabinet i opened the door and it fell of and it hit the floor with a crash they came over and treated me like i had done this on purpose which i had not it was just bad workmanship so now i have chester mill but it will have a stand from someone else. but still a great day out.

Edited By dave cotton on 18/12/2010 22:43:55
19 December 2010 at 11:37 #60788
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
The problem is that there are two many show in a short space of time.

At one time there was the ‘official’ ME show which has been at Olympia, Wembley and Ally Pally and held in the beginning of January.

Since private venture shows have been organised and have gotten regular slots it’s squashed the year up. Holding the ME show at the same time as it was would now clash with the TEE organised Ally Pally show around the 19 / 20th of January.

Traders won’t do two shows that close as the takings are diluted but expenses are still the same.

Whether you agree with traders or not they are needed, gate fees will not cover a show when club stands have to be given free plus loads of free tickets for club stewards.

It’s the lack of traders what worry me, they are losing them all the while to rising costs and not being replaced by new. This then causes a knock on effect in that organisers increase prices to make up the shortfall and this forces more out. It has happened as the Pickering show has proved and has been forced to close.

IMHO December is not the time to hold a show, it’s a short month given the Christmas and new years holidays and a busy time with the lead up to Christmas but many traders are also internet based as regards sales so they have to close at what could be a busy time and move to an expensive show where they are not guaranteed making a profit over expenditure given transport, hotel, meals and stand costs.

So for many given Christmas and a December show they could be down to a 10 – 14 day working month.

Running two London shows within a month is stupid. Take a look at the most successful show we have on the calendar at the moment which is Harrogate in May.

Around 24,000 people thru the doors in 3 days, none other come close.

The main reason is it’s far enough away from other shows in time and location to make it a must go – just like the original ME show. It’s the only show I have seen where literally 1,000’s of pounds in Scottish money changes hands. People go there to spend, they go to other shows to look and it might sound very vulgar and commercial but these shows ARE commercial and have to be to exist.

Instead of diluting shows within the M25 area which won’t help anyone in the long run take a better look at the map of the UK.

Did you know there is no show of any decent size in the North West and no I don’t live there so no vested interest.

Do a show around September around Preston / Blackpool and you will get all the Scots back down again as whey will had had a 6 month break from Harrogate.

John S.

Edited By John Stevenson on 19/12/2010 11:38:46
19 December 2010 at 15:15 #60809
magpie
Participant
@magpie
I agree with everything said by John S above.I know lots of folk who go to harrogate every year, but will not go anywhere near the south east as public transport is too expensive and time consuming, and the roads are chaotic

Merry Christmass everyone Cheers Derek
19 December 2010 at 19:13 #60824
AndyB
Participant
@andyb47186
SWIMBO and I both thought that the show was excellent.

She did putter for a while, until we had explored all the little rooms, then she found not one but two ploughing engines, so that made her day! (She is so easy to please!)

I was completely stunned and in total awe of the model Bentley engine, especially when fired up. It sounded exactly like the original!

We actually like the layout with the different bits all over the place; it gives the opportunity to look closely without competing with others for the view. Larger rooms tend to have larger groups of people around the exhibits.

One thing to say about the boats; the chap with the lifeboat had the top off when we got to see it. No lack of engineering there! He had made non-running scale models of the engines which unclipped to be replaced by electric motors for sailing. The hull was jammed full of controls and gizmos that surely warrant the ‘engineering’ epithet.

To my way of thinking, there is a broad enough spectrum to interest the wider paying public.

If there was not then only a narrow section of attendance would insufficiently fill the coffers that generate this type of exhibition. No gate money, no show. Limited market, no trade stands.

As to location; we come from wildest East Anglia. Nothing big happens within 3 or 4 hours travelling because of limited population. We have to travel to where the townies live because the number of them in one spot means that stuff happens. Our choice and we are happy with it.
20 December 2010 at 11:38 #60862
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Posted by Peter Gain on 31/12/2009 20:53:56:

Yes, an excellent exhibition.

BUT.

Please remember that the exhibition is for “Model Engineering”. Please, no more bits plastic & cardboard models. Whilst such models may be worthy of critical acclaim, they are NOT “Model Engineering“. We had a plethora of plastic models a few years ago, they have their place, but not in an engineering exhibition. Exhibits should be substantially of metal which has been turned, milled, filed, & etc. No more “Blue Peter” models, please.

Peter Gain.

Hi Peter,

So if I made a model of say, Harrison’s wooden clock, I would have to make it out of metal in order to qualify? Or if I made a fully machined and hand filed clock out of Perspex (with a few metal bits) that would not be acceptable being plastic? I also see that there is quite a lot of engineering using modern materials and CNC methods (no manual machining or filing there) being used on the stand of the Society of Model and Experimental Engineers, should they be barred?

While on the subject of clocks, as you rightly point out it is a Model Engineering exhibition yet I see many full size working clocks which are definitely not models, so if we have to adopt narrow interpretations and didactic definitions of the title we should not have those?

Just asking for clarification of your ideas.

Best regards

Terry
20 December 2010 at 11:56 #60865
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
Models are built to scale, nobody has said that the scale cannot be 12″ = 1ft.
20 December 2010 at 12:32 #60868
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
Hi Peter

Where does that leave the youngsters?

They have to start somewhere and cardboard, paper, glue and scissors is where they start in school.

It does not matter what you make it from, If it is a model, it is model engineering.

Also, regarding model engineering.

If a model engineer makes it in his workshop, it is model engineering.

regards David
20 December 2010 at 12:39 #60869
Geoff Sheppard
Participant
@geoffsheppard46476
The science of engineering encompasses the use of all forms of material, not just metallics (remember Brunel’s wonderful wooden railway structures?). If we insist that metals are the only appropriate materials for model engineering, we shall eventually run out of prototypes to model or, rather, be stuck in the Victorian age. There is increasing use of non-metallics for the construction of major components in the aeronautical and automotive field and with the rapidly increasing price of metals, research is likely to be concentrated in this area.

Modern rapid prototyping using non-metallics is becoming ever more simplified and akin to model engineering in its more advanced forms. I have just been reading a fascinating paper on polymer solid deposition manufacturing which, it seems, can produce multi-part assemblies to high degrees of accuracy, with no conventional manufacturing involved. How shall we produce small scale versions of these in fifty years time? What about ceramic i.c. engine block/crancase structures?

Makes you think, doesn’t it? Or are we stuck with making steam engines for ever?

Best wishes

Geoff
20 December 2010 at 13:01 #60872
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Kwil,

If we wish to be pedantic I think that this fits our model engineering best definition best:

“A scale model is a physical model, a representation or copy of an object that is larger or smaller than the actual size of the object, which seeks to maintain the relative proportions (the scale factor) of the physical size of the original object. Very often the scale model is smaller than the original and used as a guide to making the object in full size. Scale models are built or collected for many reasons.”

Wikipedia

BTW I love to see the clocks at the exhibition and wonder at them, but models? – mostly, no. I have seen some lovely scale models of medieval clocks though.

T
20 December 2010 at 13:08 #60876
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi David and Geoff,

I agree entirely, Making things out of card, plastics etc is a form of rapid prototyping and involves intricate measuring, shaping, cutting and trimming parts to fit and usually move. This is especially useful in schools where traditional teaching methods take years for basic concepts to be taught whereas looking at those youngsters at the exhibition they were taking advanced concepts to high level without taking 4 years to build something which may or may not work at the end of it all. I wonder which is the better way of using their hour a week workshop time? and are those models not of value? Please don’t use the term ‘Blue Peter methods’ in a derogatory way, there is a lot of value in encouraging young people and they thrive on success.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 20/12/2010 13:10:03
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