Dam Busters Channel Four tonight

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Dam Busters Channel Four tonight

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  • #67874
    Colin Jacobs 1
    Participant
      @colinjacobs1

      Who’s watching it? I wish I Could make one two keep the yachts off my model boat pond.

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      #4168
      Colin Jacobs 1
      Participant
        @colinjacobs1
        #67881
        ady
        Participant
          @ady
          Are they going to allow the N word?
           
          A lot has changed over the last 60 years.
          It’s intruiging to watch it happen, to watch the way society changes.
          To have lived through it is a privilege indeed. Thankyou Britain.
           
          The film by-the-way was shot with the last 5 or 6 Avro Lancasters off the production line.
           
          daaaaaa. daa da-da da daaaa, daaaaa daa da-da da da daaaa….
           
          Star wars copied the Dambusters:
           
          How many guns do you think there are…
          I’d say there are about ten guns – some in the field, and some in the tower…

          Edited By ady on 02/05/2011 23:36:03

          #67886
          Chris Trice
          Participant
            @christrice43267
            They used four lancasters, all Mk 7’s, reverse engineered to look more like their wartime configuration with the exception of retaining their post war rear gun turrets. Three of the Lancs had two sets of Squadron codes, different on either side so three Lancs could play the part of six lancs. Only Gibson’s AJ-G had the correct serial number, the rest retaining their real RAF serials. They came from an RAF Maintenance Unit and three of them had appeared on film before in the Dirk Bogarde movie “Appointment In London” (less well known but also recommended). More sadly, the lancs were signed off charge and scrapped shortly after the film was completed. Peter Jackson has long been rumoured to be preparing a Dambusters remake using a script written by Stephen Fry and they’ve got around the controversial ‘N’ word by calling Gibson’s dog “Nigsy” which apparently it frequently was. There were some photographs on the net of a fibreglass Lancaster Jackson had had built and I have to say, it looked very good for a non flying replica.
            #67888
            ady
            Participant
              @ady
              Appointment In London
               
              Got that one. Not really any planes in it though, all talk, interesting bomber tactics though.
              633 Squadron was the best one apart from the “battle of Britain” which used Spanish Fascist air force Heinkels and British Merlin powered me109 messerschmitts
               
              Note the Spitfire type exhausts along the cowling
               
              Compared with a PROPER 109
               
              Which had an INVERTED V12!!
               
              …so the moral of the story is:
              the British weren’t the only heath robinson nutters on the planet.

              Edited By ady on 03/05/2011 01:25:55

              #67892
              ady
              Participant
                @ady
                I recall various people saying:
                 
                The German Me 109 had fuel injection!!! it was better !!!
                 
                …um…actually they had no choice, the engine was arse over tit as far as gravity was concerned.
                #67897
                KWIL
                Participant
                  @kwil
                  Last night’s presentation was “an attempt” to show what happened and with the good skill (in daylight) of the Canadian pilot achieved what they set out to show, namely that Barnes was right and that they could replicate it in some form.
                   
                  Regretably the background “music” if that is what you could call it, was the usual intrusive distraction.
                   
                  Having met Barnes Wallis a number of years ago, I think they failed to show what a brilliant but self effacing man he was, his regret at having sent those brave aircrew to their deaths as he saw it, weighed heavily upon him.
                  #67898
                  David Clark 13
                  Participant
                    @davidclark13
                    Hi There
                    One of the bombs is at the Ringwood Town and Country Experience in Hampshire.
                     
                     
                    I was quite surprised how small it was.
                    regards David
                    #67899
                    blowlamp
                    Participant
                      @blowlamp
                      Posted by David Clark 1 on 03/05/2011 09:40:23:

                      Hi There
                      One of the bombs is at the Ringwood Town and Country Experience in Hampshire.
                       
                       
                      I was quite surprised how small it was.
                      regards David
                       
                       
                       
                      It would certainly be an experience if anyone set it off
                       
                      Martin.
                      #67904
                      Geoff Theasby
                      Participant
                        @geofftheasby
                        There’s also one at Kelham Island Museum in Sheffield, and also at East Kirkby Lancaster Museum in Lincolnshire, where some of the Ch 4 programme was filmed.
                         
                        Regards
                        Geoff
                        #67906
                        Clive Hartland
                        Participant
                          @clivehartland94829
                          The size of the ‘bouncing bomb’ is not really a problem, the hydrostatic effect of the bomb going off under water against the dam wall and using the water as a backstop enables the shock wave to disrupt the wall.
                          I doubt the bomb was meant itself to destroy the wall but to loosen or crack it so that the weight of water behind it would then break it down, which it did!
                          Explosives and water are a potent combination and can be used to do metal forming against a die and make intricate shapes difficult to do with a power press.
                          When I was stationd in Germany I visited a power station below the wall at Mohne dam, there I spoke to an old operator who was there when it broke and he said that the disruption was only for three or four days as power was diveretd from other areas to carry on production in Wetter where Demag had a big factory.
                          There is very little evidence of the dam being damaged and it was all rebuilt.
                           
                          Clive
                          #67908
                          Tony Jeffree
                          Participant
                            @tonyjeffree56510
                            Posted by Clive Hartland on 03/05/2011 13:32:12:

                            When I was stationd in Germany I visited a power station below the wall at Mohne dam, there I spoke to an old operator who was there when it broke and he said that the disruption was only for three or four days as power was diveretd from other areas to carry on production in Wetter where Demag had a big factory.
                            There is very little evidence of the dam being damaged and it was all rebuilt.
                             
                            Clive
                            Yes…it would seem that the real value to the allied war effort was in boosting morale (and demoralizing the Germans) rather than in the actual damage caused.
                             
                            Regards,
                            Tony

                            Edited By Tony Jeffree on 03/05/2011 14:07:36

                            #67910
                            Mike
                            Participant
                              @mike89748
                              Wish I’d caught up with this thread earlier, then I wouldn’t have missed the programme. The subject is of special interest to me as my late father was sent to 617 Squadron to help prepare the Lancasters for the Dams raid. He was an expert on aircraft electrical systems. Anyone know if it’s likely to be repeated?
                              At present 617 is based at RAF Lossiemouth, only a few miles from my home. Tornados don’t sound as good as Lancasters!
                              #67911
                              John Stevenson 1
                              Participant
                                @johnstevenson1
                                 
                                Watch on your PC.
                                 
                                John S.
                                #67912
                                Tony Jeffree
                                Participant
                                  @tonyjeffree56510
                                  Posted by Mike on 03/05/2011 14:59:56:

                                  The subject is of special interest to me as my late father was sent to 617 Squadron to help prepare the Lancasters for the Dams raid. He was an expert on aircraft electrical systems.
                                  Mike –
                                   
                                  Your father may well have known one of my uncles in that case – he worked in Barnes Wallis’s team.
                                   
                                  Regards,
                                  Tony
                                  #67914
                                  Mike
                                  Participant
                                    @mike89748
                                    John: Many thanks for the link.
                                    Tony: It is possible that my father and your uncle met up while 617’s aircraft were being prepared, although dad had no formal links with the Barnes Wallis team. He spent his war with No.1 Signals Squadron on an incredibly long tour of RAF stations in the UK, testing and fitting new developments in radio and navigation aids mainly. He was one of the first RAF personnel to be seconded to work with the Americans, to fit RAF-compatible radio into the incoming B17s. Also fitted communications systems into Winston Churchill’s personal Liberator. He died in 1974, and I am always sorry I did not ask him more about his wartime service.
                                    After his death I found some of his sketches of Lancaster wiring diagrams, which I gave to the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight in the late 80s. Their Lancaster often used to fly over my home when I lived in Lincolnshire, and when I handed over the drawings I jokingly suggested that as a reward they could fly the Lanc over my house low enough to make the roof slates rattle. Some weeks later it did just that. I am sure it was a coincidence rather than a deliberate act, but it was a wonderful moment!
                                    #67950
                                    Chris Trice
                                    Participant
                                      @christrice43267
                                      There’s also one of the test bombs that was dropped at Reculver on display at the Brenzett aircraft museum.
                                       
                                      Incidentally, if you look closely at the film, many of the background aircraft in the distance on the ground are Lincolns standing in for Lancs.
                                      #67975
                                      Ian S C
                                      Participant
                                        @iansc
                                        The bomb its self was the small bit, after the frame for mounting the bomb and the motor to rotate it was in place. Ian S C

                                        Edited By Ian S C on 04/05/2011 13:22:55

                                        #67991
                                        John Olsen
                                        Participant
                                          @johnolsen79199
                                          Ady, A few minutes thought should tell you that you can use a float carburettor on an inverted engine, provided of course that you remember to mount the float chamber the right way up. I beleive this was done on the Tiger Moth for instance. So they didn’t have to use fuel injection on the 109s, but it was an advantage to them since they could perform negative g manouvres without losing power. Fortunately they still lost.
                                           
                                          You do have to watch out with inverted cylinders if you get them flooded, the plug will tend to stay wet. The lubrication system also needs a redesign when you invert the engine.
                                           
                                          regards
                                          John
                                          #67992
                                          Anonymous
                                            I can confirm that the Tiger Moth has a standard float carburettor.
                                             
                                            Regards,
                                             
                                            Andrew
                                            #68021
                                            Ian S C
                                            Participant
                                              @iansc
                                              The DC-2 prototype crashed on take off, when the nose came up the engines stopped. It was cured by turning the carburettor around 180 deg, so that the float hinge was open instead of closed. Ian S C
                                              #68055
                                              AndyB
                                              Participant
                                                @andyb47186
                                                Hi all,
                                                 
                                                Thanks a million for the link! I don’t ever turn on the doom box except for an hour or two at Chrimbo.
                                                 
                                                Fantastic programme that showed the difficulties of setting up something like that.
                                                We know it is going to work because it already has, but recreatring it without the original equipment (Lancasters, Riculver beach, the Mohne dam and war experienced pilots) was going to be something to see.
                                                 
                                                Just goes to show, you CAN make honey out of dogsh*t! Haha! (a good description of my better efforts in the shed!)
                                                 
                                                Andy
                                                #68105
                                                Chris Trice
                                                Participant
                                                  @christrice43267
                                                  The only thing that spoilt it for me was the Canadian pilot deliberately dropping the bomb late because he thought he knew better. That’s fine if your trying to demolish the dam like you’re going for a strike in ten pin bowling but on the raid, that would’ve been a wasted bomb. It also failed the documentary because it didn’t illustrate the final point, that being that the bomb hits the dam and then sinks to the bottom of the wall thanks to the residual spin where it then explodes. It had to be shown as a graphic.
                                                   
                                                  #68113
                                                  AndyB
                                                  Participant
                                                    @andyb47186
                                                    To be fair, any pilot who flies a 4 – engined cargo plane at 80 feet is going to be a bit headstrong…
                                                    #68138
                                                    Ian S C
                                                    Participant
                                                      @iansc
                                                      Andy, you forgot At night, with someone shooting at you.
                                                      The nearest I’v seen is aerial topdressing by DC-3, or Lockheed Loadstar, in hill country here in New Zealand. Those days are gone now. Ian S C
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