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  • #605114
    Graham Baron
    Participant
      @grahambaron35953

      Hi all new to all this i have an ml10 lathe just starting to get to grips with it fitted new motor worked out revers wiring and made a handle mover for the screw c cutting one thing i don't understand is the primary gear does not seem to mesh with othere gears should there be a washer behind it the manual does show anything thanks

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      #41290
      Graham Baron
      Participant
        @grahambaron35953

        primary gear

        #605176
        Howard Lewis
        Participant
          @howardlewis46836

          Graham,

          Welcome to the Forum.

          Yes, ask questions and answers will soon appear. IF folk understand what you are asking.

          What do you mean by the "Primary gear"?

          If the lathe has back gear, under normal circumstances the drive pulley is secured to the Bull wheel in some way.e (On the big sister, ML 7, IF I remember from 20 years ago, there is a "key" which locks the pulley to the Bull wheel (The big gear not far behind the chuck ). The capscew is slackened and the "key" can then slide to and fro, radially to lock the Pulley to the Bull wheel, or to disengage it..

          If back gear is to be used, the "key" needs to be moved inwards, to disengage the pulley from the Bull wheel.so that when Back gear is engaged you are not trying to drive the spindle at two different speeds mat the same time. If you do, everything locks up!

          (Normally, to engage back Gear, the shaft carrying two gears,can be moved so that they mesh with a gear on the Spindle and the Bull Wheel, to provide a two stage reduction in speed.

          My present lathe has a spring loaded dowel which locks the Bull wheel to the pulley so that when the Back Gear cluster is brought into mesh, the dowel is disengaged, so the drive is via the two stage reduction, This runs the Spindle at a lower speed and provides more torque. (Often about a 5 or 6 times speed reduction ).

          The drive comes in via the pulley, the small gear drives the large gear on the Back Gear shaft, and the small ,gear on the shaft drives the Bull wheel which is fixed to the Spindle. .

          It would be a good idea if you bought a book, such as L H Sparery, "The Amateurs Lathe", or Ian Bradley's "The Amateurs Workshop", or one of the other books on lathework.

          These books answer a lot of your questions, and give a lot of other useful information, to enable you to make better use of your lathe, and avoid difficulties.

          FWIW my advice is to get to know then lathe and how to use its features by making small tools, before trying to make anything complicated.

          Making simple tools will allow you to gain experience, and confidence, and leave you with a few tools which will be useful for along time. come.

          For a start, I would suggest making a Centre Height Gauge. This involves just simple turning, some drilling and tapping, and you will have a tool which simplifies setting tools to correct height so that they cut properly.

          Then you can progress to things like Tap Wrenches, or a Tailstock Sliding Holder for Dies (This will ease cutting external threads )

          There are designs for these sorts of things in books, by such people as G H Thomas, or from time to time in magazines such as Model Engineers' Workshop. If you look through Albums, you will see pictures of small tools such as these, made by various posters on this Forum.

          Far better to make mistakes, you will, we all do, on a bit of mild steel, rather than an expensive casting from a kit!

          Eventually, having gained more experience, confidence and skill, you might then want to make a Tailstock Sliding Tap Holder…

          HTH

          Howard

          Edited By Howard Lewis on 10/07/2022 02:19:19

          #605193
          Alan Donovan
          Participant
            @alandonovan54394

            Hi Graham.

            ‘Primary gear’ is not terminology we are used to with the ML10.

            I recommend you take a photo or two of the gear and area in question, and post them in this thread, I am confident you have the answers you need within the hour.

            Just be aware that to post photos, you have to place them in an album first to be able to then copy them into the thread.

            lastly, welcome to the forum.

            Best regards. Alan

             

            Edited By Alan Donovan on 10/07/2022 07:21:13

            #605221
            Graham Baron
            Participant
              @grahambaron35953

              C:UsersGraham BaronPicturesgear 1.JPG hi this is the gear should it have a washer behind it manual not very clear thanks

              #605222
              Graham Baron
              Participant
                @grahambaron35953

                C:UsersGraham BaronPicturesgear 1.JPG hi this is the gear should it have a washer behind it manual not very clear thanks

                #605227
                Oldiron
                Participant
                  @oldiron
                  Posted by Graham Baron on 10/07/2022 11:51:38:

                  C:UsersGraham BaronPicturesgear 1.JPG hi this is the gear should it have a washer behind it manual not very clear thanks

                  We cannot see pictures on your computer. You need to place them in a forum album 1st.

                  regards

                  #605228
                  Graham Baron
                  Participant
                    @grahambaron35953

                    hi its the gear that comes off the screw feed behind the gear quadrant does not sit inline with the gears should there be a washer behind it tried posting pic but want have it

                    #605229
                    vic newey
                    Participant
                      @vicnewey60017

                      You appear to have put a photo link to your own PC which we cannot see,

                      see the top of the page ALBUMS click on it and click create an album, give it a title and then upload your photo's to it,

                      Then you can add it to this page by click the camera sign which says ( insert image from album) above your message

                      #605230
                      Oldiron
                      Participant
                        @oldiron

                        more info on photo posting HERE

                        regards

                        #605238
                        Graham Baron
                        Participant
                          @grahambaron35953

                          gear 1.jpg

                          #605239
                          Graham Baron
                          Participant
                            @grahambaron35953

                            Hi wee got there this is the gear as you can see its not central do you have to put a washer behind it the manual is not very clear on set up thanks

                            #605240
                            Howard Lewis
                            Participant
                              @howardlewis46836

                              To me, that looks like the gear on the Leadscrew.

                              That is driven by change wheels (Or change gears) Their function is provide the correct ratio between the Spindle and the Leadscrew, so that the Saddle moves the correct distance for every revolution of the chuck )

                              Buy the books so that you know the correct names for the parts of the lathe, and their function!

                              Then you can ask the right question and get the right answer.

                              Most often, the changewheel set up is is used for cutting screw threads. The ML7 has a Leadscrew with 8 t p i (Threads per inch)

                              Since the ML7 is an Imperial machine, I will deal in Imperial units.

                              Otherwise you will start asking about screws that are 6.354 mm in diameter, when the truth is that they are 1/4"

                              The threads on the lathe will be BSW and BSF with, probably gib strips BA. (This is where Tubal Cain's "Model Engineers Handbook" comes into its own to explain the mysteries!

                              So if you wanted to cut a thread with 8 tpi, the gears would be set give a ratio of 1:1. so the driving gear, beneath the tumbler reverse would be a 20T, driving an idler, to a 20T on the Leadscrew. The idler is merely there to transfer the drive from the Driving gear to the Driven, and does not affect the overall ratio.

                              If you wanted to cut a 16 tpi thread, the ratio would be 2:1, so that the Saddle moves a shorter distance for every revolution of the chuck.

                              If you wanted 12 tpi the ratio would need to 1.5:1 so the the 20T Driver would eventually transmit to a 30T Driven gear

                              For other ratios, you might need to use a Compound Idler, where two gears are combined.

                              Purely as an example, if you wanted to use the Leadscrew to provide a power feed for plain turning, you might set up a 20T driving a 60T on the Idler, which is coupled to another 20T which drives a 80T on the leadscrew.

                              This set up will provide an overall ratio of 12:1 which would mean that the Saddle would move the Saddle 0.0104" for every rotation of the chuck. This is fairly fine feed, but not the finest, which ideally would need to be of the order of 0.004" per rev, in my view..

                              Where are you located?

                              Try to find a local Model Engineering Society, so that you can find like minds, to whom, armed with the knowledge from the books, you can pose questions face to face and obtain more detailed explanations and answers.

                              Someone, hopefully. will tell / show you how to grind HSS tools for the lathe and to set them at centre height.

                              HTH

                              Howard,

                              #605252
                              SillyOldDuffer
                              Moderator
                                @sillyoldduffer

                                Welcome to the forum Graham.

                                I think the photo provided is of part of the banjo, but it's too much of a close-up to see what's going on.

                                Unless they have a full gearbox, lathes achieve the different ratios needed to cut screw-threads with a set of gearwheels that can be arranged on a 'banjo'.

                                dsc06626.jpg

                                My machine is Chinese, but the principle is the same. In the photo above a belt connects pulleys on the spindle and motor to turn the chuck, while gears compounded on the banjo on the right turn the lead-screw at a different speed to the chuck but synchronised with it.

                                Another view of the gears engaged from a the spindle to the lead-screw,

                                dsc06627.jpg

                                Details vary but the banjo can usually be swung away from the lathe to provide access, and a way provided to space and attach the gears as necessary to get the required ratio.

                                dsc06628.jpg

                                A table of combinations for different threads is often printed on the front of the lathe, and in the manual.  The lathe should have come with a selection of gears.

                                The gear combination pictured on my machine is set up for fine feed rather than screw-cutting. The saddle is moved by it slowly by the motor rather than manually, and the resulting cut is usually better/faster.

                                Glad you asked because taking the photos I notice a clip has come off the top gear. It needs to be found and replaced!

                                Can you do another photo, bit further back so we can see the whole headstock?

                                Dave

                                Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 10/07/2022 16:06:25

                                #605256
                                Graham Baron
                                Participant
                                  @grahambaron35953

                                  gear3.jpg

                                  #605257
                                  Graham Baron
                                  Participant
                                    @grahambaron35953

                                    looking at your picture the cog does not mesh all the way must lace in when running up to the thrust washer thanks for your pictures

                                    #605258
                                    Graham Baron
                                    Participant
                                      @grahambaron35953

                                      Ye i have what they call installation manual and parts list i think they wrote it on back of a cig packet haha

                                      #605265
                                      SillyOldDuffer
                                      Moderator
                                        @sillyoldduffer

                                        I forgot to mention that the gear pairs are spaced away from the banjo with washers of different thicknesses arranged so the adjacent teeth don't clash.

                                        The gears in your photo aren't compounded, which means the ratio is high, possibly not a useful useful combination. The two small gears are being used as spacers, which is allowed, but their configuration doesn't alter the ratio: I'd expect at least one pair to be compounded. Perhaps an M10 owner could comment please?

                                        In comparison, my banjo picture shows a small tooth count on the spindle driving a big gear, which turns another low toothed gear (hidden behind) driving a big gear on the leadscrew. Most of the time, except when screw-cutting, it's usual to have gears mounted as in my example for fine feed, though moving the saddle by turning the wheel by hand is commonly done. (In which case the change gears don't matter.)

                                        Also allowed, when the lead-screw isn't needed, to shift the banjo so the gear teeth at one end aren't connected. The lathe runs quieter with perhaps 20% more power available for cutting.

                                        Just in case it's not obvious, keep fingers and sleeves well away from the teeth. Even turning the chuck slowly by hand can inflict a painful nip, and an electric motor can do serious damage to flesh and bone. Be very careful if the lathe is ever operated with the covers off.

                                        Dave

                                        #605272
                                        Graham Baron
                                        Participant
                                          @grahambaron35953

                                          Thanks Dave just getting to grips with it as said the manual is no very good apart from parts list

                                          #605345
                                          Howard Lewis
                                          Participant
                                            @howardlewis46836

                                            Buy Ian Bradley's "Myford Series 7 Manual" It will explain a LOT of things. The book is written specifically about the ML7 and its successors, and help you grasp the basics of lathe set up and operation..

                                            Where are you located? Join a local M E Club so that you can get some face to face tuition, or maybe some one on here who is close to you might be willing to come and help.

                                            You will struggle on your own, and make mistakes, some of which could be costly.

                                            Howard

                                            #605348
                                            Howard Lewis
                                            Participant
                                              @howardlewis46836

                                              Graham,

                                              You have a PM

                                              #605357
                                              Graham Baron
                                              Participant
                                                @grahambaron35953

                                                Thanks for all your comments found local group so should help

                                                #605649
                                                Graham Baron
                                                Participant
                                                  @grahambaron35953

                                                  Hi i now have the motor up and running the cog now is ok does any one know were i will get headstock bolts please there 3/8" x5/8" bsf square head thanks

                                                  #605650
                                                  Howard Lewis
                                                  Participant
                                                    @howardlewis46836

                                                    Find a local hardware stockist, and ask for 3/8 BSF. Setscrews (At 5/8 long would expect them to be treaded all along the length..

                                                    Being BSF a local stockist may not have them, so you might need to search on google for stockists, (preferably in UK ) Don't expect them mto be cheap, though!

                                                    If the lathe is operable, and you have a 3/8 BSF Die, you can make tour own out of hexagon bar, but they won't be high tensile.

                                                    (How dioI set the Die? Adjust it to a close fit on an used section of thread on the existing setscrews , or on a commercial one if available. )

                                                    Now you are in the market for Die Holders and Tap Wrenches.!

                                                    Howard

                                                    #605665
                                                    Graham Baron
                                                    Participant
                                                      @grahambaron35953

                                                      found bolts on ebay winner

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