Plan B upgraded to Plan A

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Plan B upgraded to Plan A

This topic has 25 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 23 November 2021 at 12:50 by Oily Rag.

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21 November 2021 at 20:44 #572353
Steve Rowbotham
Participant
@steverowbotham77083
Hello all. Having recently retired from a 4 decade career in engineering, Plan A was to focus on my-life long hobby of riding and restoring motorcycles. However, a serious crash in August has prompted a bit of a re-think, and Plan B, Model Engineering, has now become plan A.

Whilst I did 'Workshop Practice' in my early years as an Engineer, and have used lathes occasionally over the years, I am without doubt a complete novice at ME. To get me up and running I visited Warco a few weeks back and got great advice on basic kit, and am now waiting for delivery of a shiny new Warco Lathe and Mill. I have also bought a Stuart singe cylinder Oscillator kit as a 'beginner' project to get started. I have now spent hours reviewing the drawing trying to work out machining sequence and clamping arrangements, and with help from threads in this forum and one particularly helpful individual (Thor) I am now raring to go, though do hope the standard casting is available to purchase as a stand alone item.

However, I am still waiting for confirmation of delivery date for my machines, which is just as well as I don't yet have a firm plan to move the pallets safely from 'kerbside drop-off' to my workshop, which is a bout 100 yards away up an inclined gravel drive. My current thoughts are to rent a pallet truck, and to use plywood sheets to form a 'caterpillar track', and to buy a 1T engine hoist for moving and lifting in the workshop (this is long overdue as I gave myself a hernia lifting a cast iron radiator just prior to the bike crash, retirement is proving to be a hazardous phase of my life!). So if there are any forum members in Leicester who have done this before, and have a bit of time on their hands, I would love to hear from you!

Will keep you posted on progress in all regards!

Steve
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21 November 2021 at 20:44 #41175
Steve Rowbotham
Participant
@steverowbotham77083
21 November 2021 at 21:15 #572355
Chris Evans 6
Participant
@chrisevans6
Welcome along to the forum Steve from another lifelong motorcyclist. Time is a great healer an in years to come you may be using your machinery for old bike restoration.
21 November 2021 at 21:16 #572357
David Price 13
Participant
@davidprice13
Hi Steve, I’m new here too. You didn’t have a Laverda did you? It’s just seen I’ve seen someone with your surname on the Laverda Owners Club forum before and you mentioned you were into bikes.

All the best with recovery from your accident, David
21 November 2021 at 21:20 #572358
Oily Rag
Participant
@oilyrag
Revert to a Plan A- /B+ you won't get the 'bike bug' out of your system that easy!

Welcome to the 'club', hope you enjoy your new hobby whichever 'branch' you decide to follow.

Martin
21 November 2021 at 21:54 #572363
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Welcome!

To a most satisfying and useful hobby.

Things which many would consider to be a total disaster may actually turn out (Probably literally ) to be a surmountable inconvenience, or even an improvement on the original )

LOTS of help om here on a HUGE range of subjects.

My advice, FWIW, is to practice on some bits of metal, initially on the lathe (Make a few accessories.

Centre Height Gauge, Mandrel Handle, Tap Wrenches, Die Holders, Tailstock Sliding Die Holders, come to mind as possible learning projects.

They will all provide useful experience in machining, measuring and planning the operations.

You never forget having made something to find that that there is now nothing by which to hold it for the next operation!.

You will gain experience, confidence, and tools that will be useful. So a win on almost all fronts!

Harold Hall's "Model Engineer's Workshop Projects" No.39 in the Workshop Practice Series, or G H Thomas'"The Model Engineers Workshop Manual" will provide some possible projects.

You will definitely find a set of Zeus Charts a useful companion for years to come (My 1958 set are very grubby, but regularly used )

You may consider it worthwhile to add to your library

Ian Bradley's "The Amateurs Workshop", since it tells how to set up a lathe, and how to grind tools, as well as fitting techniques.

Tubal Cain's "The Model Engineers Handbook" is another very useful reference book.

These latter books will answer a lot of questions before you ask them, and save time and temper as well as material.

Far better to make mistakes on relatively cheap material rather than expensive parts of a kit.

HTH

Howard
21 November 2021 at 22:19 #572365
Chris Mate
Participant
@chrismate31303
I recently moved a new ZAY 7045M mill 350kg onto a concrete foundation poured in garage providing 250mm lift in height with 6x bolts to bolt its cabinet down to, the height worked out great for me. The mill bed on the cabinet was too low for me. I also lifted my 330 lathe on advice, and that was a great move for me. It was heavy the hoist did not moved as freely as I thought it would.

I used an engine crane with 4x straps-Vertically(Which I already had), the mill head lowered down to the bed with cardbord in between.
I found using a 3mmx 600mm piece of pipe as support with the straps over it at the lower quater of the mill square column-rear(isolate with cardbord), then straps underneath the mill lower cast iron base, kept the straps apart keeping it from possibly sliding on the lower end towards each other causing a shift. I also tied the top of the mill to these straps top end attached to the crane with an extra strap(Horizontally.
I just made the height with 2 inches spare over the cabinet now extended 250mm with the engine hoist.
21 November 2021 at 23:11 #572368
Steve Rowbotham
Participant
@steverowbotham77083
Thanks for all your most welcoming and helpful replies. Regarding bikes, which Iv'e ridden from 17 to 64, I'm now a bit snookered medically which precipitated the decision that I need to switch to another past time; maybe this will change in the future, but for now I'm disposing of my 2 bikes – both Triumphs (not Laverda David). The bike I was riding at time of the accident wasn't mine, it was a demonstrator and sadly was written-off. As you say Chris there is the potential to combine restoration with machining in the future, I started out on BSAs and would go back down that route if I can get to ride again. Howard thank you for your instructive guidance, I have bought Howard Halls 'complete courses' on Lathework and Milling (34 & 36), will purchase one of the project books you suggest (and desist from launching into the oscillator until I have produced some of the practice items you suggest), will also look out the latter books you reference. Chris, thanks for the explanation of how you moved your mill, how far away from Leicester are you? Thanks again for welcoming me to the forum, it feels nice and safe to ask ask basic questions here without having to don a tin lid first. Steve
21 November 2021 at 23:41 #572371
Stuart Smith 5
Participant
@stuartsmith5
Steve

When you are getting your lathe and mill delivered, you may be able to get the delivery company to move them to your workshop if you can either make a board track or clear a track through the gravel.

When I got my lathe from Warco earlier this year, it was delivered by a local transport company using a vehicle with a tail lift and a powered pallet truck. I have a gravel drive so I scraped the gravel back to make a route ( down to the flat and solid hardcore base).

The driver moved it to outside my garage workshop (about 30 m) and would have put it inside the workshop if I had cleared the space!

Stuart

Edited By Stuart Smith 5 on 21/11/2021 23:42:10
22 November 2021 at 06:25 #572381
Thor 🇳🇴
Participant
@thor
Hi Steve,

Welcome to the forum. When I received my 200kg lathe I used plywood sheets and some pieces of round wood to roll the crate across my lawn. Two of my friends had no problems moving the crate (I did remove the chuck, topslide and tailstock first). If your path is inclined you need to make sure the crate won't start rolling downhill, good luck.

Thor
22 November 2021 at 08:03 #572384
AJAX
Participant
@ajax
Posted by Steve Rowbotham on 21/11/2021 20:44:38:

Hello all. Having recently retired from a 4 decade career in engineering, Plan A was to focus on my-life long hobby of riding and restoring motorcycles. However, a serious crash in August has prompted a bit of a re-think, and Plan B, Model Engineering, has now become plan A.

Whilst I did 'Workshop Practice' in my early years as an Engineer, and have used lathes occasionally over the years, I am without doubt a complete novice at ME. To get me up and running I visited Warco a few weeks back and got great advice on basic kit, and am now waiting for delivery of a shiny new Warco Lathe and Mill. I have also bought a Stuart singe cylinder Oscillator kit as a 'beginner' project to get started. I have now spent hours reviewing the drawing trying to work out machining sequence and clamping arrangements, and with help from threads in this forum and one particularly helpful individual (Thor) I am now raring to go, though do hope the standard casting is available to purchase as a stand alone item.

However, I am still waiting for confirmation of delivery date for my machines, which is just as well as I don't yet have a firm plan to move the pallets safely from 'kerbside drop-off' to my workshop, which is a bout 100 yards away up an inclined gravel drive. My current thoughts are to rent a pallet truck, and to use plywood sheets to form a 'caterpillar track', and to buy a 1T engine hoist for moving and lifting in the workshop (this is long overdue as I gave myself a hernia lifting a cast iron radiator just prior to the bike crash, retirement is proving to be a hazardous phase of my life!). So if there are any forum members in Leicester who have done this before, and have a bit of time on their hands, I would love to hear from you!

Will keep you posted on progress in all regards!

Steve

Steve, I have a long, steep and narrow driveway that makes similar deliveries a problem. Although mine is tarmac, I reckon I'd find it close to impossible to push a loaded pallet truck to the top. I therefore try to shift anything heavy on my car trailer, but I have previously enquired about hiring a man and tracked lifting machine (maybe 2T lifting capacity) for future jobs. I was quoted a rough price of about £90 assuming an hour's work, which I consider quite reasonable.
22 November 2021 at 10:28 #572417
Nick Clarke 3
Participant
@nickclarke3
I only have small machines but while the supplier of one (Arc Euro) told me they specified the use of a tail lift delivery lorry, it came on one without – leaving the driver and I to struggle, so my advice will be to sort this in detail beforehand.

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 22/11/2021 10:28:58
22 November 2021 at 11:04 #572425
Steve Rowbotham
Participant
@steverowbotham77083
Hi Stuart, Thor, Ajax & Nick, thanks for your helpful responses, I am contemplating a hybrid of your suggestions. The difficulty I have is quite a long steep slope, and gravel laid on a retaining mat that I fitted to stop gravel migration down the slope and to make safe for motorcycles – see pics. Machine supplier advises the driver is only required to drop at kerb, but may be up for doing more, this is something I can discuss with delivery Co once they make contact. Planning on worst case that I need to move without assistance from delivery folk, current thinking is plywood sheets laid end over end like a caterpillar track with pallets rolling on wooden rollers, and a couple of able and willing friends armed with wedges to prevent the effects of gravity raised by Thor. However, I had not contemplated hiring a man and tracked lifting machine, that is a good suggestion that I will now investigate. On Nick's point, I agree this all needs detail planning before agreeing to delivery date else I could be stuck with several £1000 of equipment stuck on my drive.
22 November 2021 at 11:51 #572447
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
To roll a pallet truck over that, you need to source a 8 x 4 sheet of ply, and cut it half, to make two 8 x 2 pieces.

This can act as a roadway, to prevent the wheels sinking into the gravel, or getting stuck in the joints between the paving blocks..

The pallet truck can be pushed or winched over the first piece, before moving onto the second piece before the first is sited ahead of the second; and so on until you reach the solid floor of the workshop.

Just make sure that the load is secured to the truck to minimise the risk of the load, or the truck, toppling over.

Howard
22 November 2021 at 11:56 #572450
Chris Mate
Participant
@chrismate31303
Forgot to say in both cases, not delivered at the same time, I choose to let the local courier load it on my pickup at their local premises with forklift, then I reverse pickup in my garage entrance and unload it from there to the required spot with the engine hoist.
When you tie the Mill to the engine hoist with straps you have time to think and test its stability before moving it away from the pickup.It really pinned down the engine hoist to the cement garage floor, I had to maneuvre it along. The front strap is kept in place by the bed position, but the rear strap(Around vertical column) I added the pipe to secure it, I saw this as a selution when I lifted it from the pickup initially and did not trusted my 1st attempt.
This worked for me, this way I was not dependant on other help.
22 November 2021 at 13:48 #572474
Stuart Smith 5
Participant
@stuartsmith5
Steve

You may be able to either hire something like this Avant 528 loader but with forks rather than a bucket (either to drive yourself or with a driver).

I rented this one last year to move 13 tonnes of gravel.

It was on offer from a local plant hire company because they had it on trial at the time. Their current hire price is £95 plus delivery & VAT for a days hire.

Stuart

Edited By Stuart Smith 5 on 22/11/2021 13:49:11
22 November 2021 at 15:09 #572480
AJAX
Participant
@ajax
Look up Hooka crane hire. I've not used one, but they look ideal. 1.5 T lift capacity, depending on reach, etc.
22 November 2021 at 15:37 #572483
Vic
Participant
@vic
When I bought my Warco Mill about ten or twelve years ago, their delivery driver Dave was brilliant. He wheeled it down my drive straight into the workshop on a pallet truck and positioned it exactly where I wanted it.
22 November 2021 at 15:54 #572484
Dave Halford
Participant
@davehalford22513
Steve,

I would use one or two of these on ebay + a longish length of 1/4" nylon rope attached to the towing eye at the front of you car. Reverse up the slope so as you can watch your load, while someone moves the ply boards. Just make sure they overlap the boards with the one nearest the road on top otherwise the top board will get pushed back and the wheels will make a new home in the gravel.
22 November 2021 at 16:56 #572489
Tony Pratt 1
Participant
@tonypratt1
Just use plywood on the gravel & a pallet truck, my Warco lathe was delivered on a pallet truck & the guy may wheel it up for you?

Tony
22 November 2021 at 17:31 #572496
Oldiron
Participant
@oldiron
Congrats on the new machinery. With any luck and a few beer tokens you may be able to get the delivery driver to back up your drive and drop it as close to the workshop as popssible.

Good luck.

regards
22 November 2021 at 19:06 #572507
Brian Rutherford
Participant
@brianrutherford79058
Hi Steve

I have a 2 ton hoist which you are welcome to use. I am situated near J3 of the M6, so not too far from leicester.

I used it for hoisting my toolco vm 32 mill onto the work bench.

Brian
22 November 2021 at 20:21 #572515
JohnF
Participant
@johnf59703
Steve R, depends if you are rural ? but if so have a word with a local farmer. A tractor with front loader and pallet arms would be perfect ! We have moved several machines weighing up to a little over 1 ton [2240lbs] with ease.

John
23 November 2021 at 11:34 #572580
Steve Rowbotham
Participant
@steverowbotham77083
Thanks to all who have responded with helpful suggestions and advice, I now have lined up a pallet truck, a vehicle with 1.5T tail lift, lots of plywood sheets, and an engine hoist! So any assistance from the delivery driver plus a combination of the above should get the lathe and mill safely from drop-off to workshop. Just now need container to be liberated from Felixstowe! Steve
23 November 2021 at 12:39 #572594
John Paton 1
Participant
@johnpaton1
See if you can get delivery with a Moffatt handler – you pay a bit more but they are incredibly agile and can run over gravel etc. These are the three wheel forklifts with bigger wheels that you see strapped top back of lorries. Their wheels articulate independently through 360 degrees meaning it can go in any direction or rotate on the spot.

I had a 4 post car lift delivered off a narrow lane and through an even narrower gate entrance and then up our inclined gravel drive.

The driver twice moved the load round through 90 degrees and placed it with a margin of a couple of inches. He reckoned it was easy but I suspect he was skilled!!

John
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